Playing with trains/ HS2 & 3

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, things have moved on is a very inconsistent way.

In 2040, you will not be able to buy a petrol/diesel car in the UK.

Great!

Last month, it was announced that 3 major rail electrification schemes are being scrapped, and replaced by Azuma trains, which are dual electric and (smelly) diesel-electric trains.

Not so great, though trains of this kind have their uses for occasional express trains on remote rural lines.
The lines in South Wales are not remote rural lines. The Transpennine route is very busy and is probably more deserving of electrification than any other line in the country. But instead, they'll have to put up with smelly diesels.

Meanwhile planning goes on for yet another new line across London - Crossrail 2. I doubt whether they will use smelly diesels.

[ahinton]

Meanwhile panning goes on for ye another new line across London - Crossrail 2. I doubt whether that will use smelly diesels.

I doubt it too but it will surely be only the second of many that will utimately help to link London with Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol et al as a single city with however many airports it will have...

[teamsaint]

Southwestern “Railway” on strike for the whole of December.

Not great for the Labour election campaign, I suspect. And bloody horrendous for rail users.

I can’t help thinking that it will be a pyrrhic victory for whichever side “wins.”

[Serial_Apologist]

Southwestern “Railway” on strike for the whole of December.

Not great for the Labour election campaign, I suspect. And bloody horrendous for rail users.

I can’t help thinking that it will be a pyrrhic victory for whichever side “wins.”

Ye gods. There was nothing about this on the BBC 10 o'clock news. Over the guards issue I presume. There have been cops with cameras progerammes on recently showing the indispensability of having a guard on board in saving passengers from attack, robbery etc. I suppose the owners will try & get some sort of injunction against it.

[teamsaint]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/05/south-western-railway-staff-to-strike-for-nearly-all-of-december

[Dave2002]

Southwestern “Railway” on strike for the whole of December.

Not great for the Labour election campaign, I suspect. And bloody horrendous for rail users.

I can’t help thinking that it will be a pyrrhic victory for whichever side “wins.”

Please remind me why a problem with South Western Railway trains should be a problem for the Labour party. Surely this time it's the Cons who should have managed the whole sorry business - but then, why not try to find an excuse to blame the other side whatever the situation! Not also mentioning any former ministers who might have been in charge of the railways for a significant period over the last year or two.

[Dave2002]

Ye gods. There was nothing about this on the BBC 10 o'clock news. Over the guards issue I presume. There have been cops with cameras progerammes on recently showing the indispensability of having a guard on board in saving passengers from attack, robbery etc. I suppose the owners will try & get some sort of injunction against it.

Unfortunately the argument for a guard to safeguard passengers could be thought of as questionable. It was on a SW train that there was a sad fatal attack in the last year or so, and I think there probably was a guard on board. I think things got out of hand very quickly, and it would have been hard to prevent with or without a guard.

[Frances_iom]

The SW network was in previous hands one of the most profitable parts of the network - even returning money to the treasury in real terms after all grants had been paid. However the new owners have managed to make mistake after mistake eg their first was to try to save money by not agreeing to use the ordered and delivered new set of trains but to claim they could refurbish the stored older stock - they haven't been able to do so as the stored stock was in worst condition than their cursory examination had claimed thus they could not provide the extra seats promised in their bid. The existing stock needs guards to operate doors though the new stock could be driver only operation and it is believed that the last Tory government had required a commitment from the company that they would move towards this at least on the dense commuter network where like Thameslink which on the line I regularly work works well but then these trains are usually fairly busy unlike parts of the outer reaches of the SW network which has seen two murders on their trains in the last decade but in neither case would a guards several carriages away been much use. The key arguments for guards is the platform visibility which on many platforms which are curved thus with the 10coach trains can be difficult.

[teamsaint]

Please remind me why a problem with South Western Railway trains should be a problem for the Labour party. Surely this time it's the Cons who should have managed the whole sorry business - but then, why not try to find an excuse to blame the other side whatever the situation! Not also mentioning any former ministers who might have been in charge of the railways for a significant period over the last year or two.

Because a long strike around election time will be easily turned against Labour and the Unions by our predominately tory press.

Yes, the tories are responsible for the mess.

[Sir Velo]

Ye gods. There was nothing about this on the BBC 10 o'clock news. Over the guards issue I presume. There have been cops with cameras progerammes on recently showing the indispensability of having a guard on board in saving passengers from attack, robbery etc. I suppose the owners will try & get some sort of injunction against it.

I would have thought CCTV would be the way to go at preventing attacks/detecting offenders and being ultimately more cost effective.

Any incident could be monitored and detected at the time it occurred; BTP could then instruct the driver to stop the train between stations - lock the doors, allowing the emergency services to attend the scene and prevent the perpetrators from escaping.

[Dave2002]

I would have thought CCTV would be the way to go at preventing attacks/detecting offenders and being ultimately more cost effective.

Any incident could be monitored and detected at the time it occurred; BTP could then instruct the driver to stop the train between stations - lock the doors, allowing the emergency services to attend the scene and prevent the perpetrators from escaping.

I think in the fairly recent case there probably was CCTV. Things happened fast, and it would have been difficult to prevent. The perpetrator did escape for a while.

[Sir Velo]

I think in the fairly recent case there probably was CCTV. Things happened fast, and it would have been difficult to prevent. The perpetrator did escape for a while.

At least with CCTV, there is footage which can be used to prosecute offenders and/or provide support for witness evidence. It's clearly not infallible but definitely has a deterrent effect. A number of high profile prosecutions in which CCTV is seen to have been instrumental will get the message home to potential criminals of the risks they run. Few guards these days, unless ex servicemen, will be likely to want to take on a violent individual or group of individuals, particularly on the wages they receive, and who can blame them?

[Dave2002]

In the particular case, from January this year, the offender seems to have had a history of mental illness, and had not been taking his prescribed medication. Sadly it seems doubtful that much could have been done, given the resources available. There was CCTV available, and CCTV footage was used in court. Sad for everyone involved.

[Serial_Apologist]

The cancellation, or least least downgrading to refurbishment, of the dual northward extension of HS2 from Birmingham to Manchester, while welcome news to many who have been against the entire project from the start, will be treated as yet another betrayal of government pledges to "level up" the north.

Ironic it indeed is that HS2 has had the most support in northern constituencies, may of which passed from Labour to Conservative-led, while main opposition has been from southern constituencies along its path. My own view is that we have now passed the stage of taking principled environment-based positions and should support the views of those who feel now betrayed, even though upgrading the designated lines and rolling stocks could arguably represent a preferable improvement to wholesale building of new lines.

[DracoM]

Rage here in the North is rising.