David Cameron's Europe Speech

[Beef Oven]

i couldn't help thinking his two penneth were a disaster for any renewed labour support!

and darn it - i anticipated blair's quote from 'blazing saddles' to be 'candy gram for mungo' ...!

i should have remembered that tony's always disappointing, tedious as well as treacherous.

BUT what's it got to do with tb anyway?

frenzied r4 euro-chat last night, featured a male guest who claimed about uk/euro relations, that 'zee cleavage eez superficial', followed by a few seconds of absolute silence, (which is v unusual in r4 news programmes, especially when they're 'on one' about a new twist in political developments). he's right though, i agree that the 'cleavage' is spun, and for all its worth, by our anxious pm. (mainly as some of his chums are 99 yrs, wobbling around, crashing into furniture in 'the house of lords', while the 'youngsters' in ukip try to 'take over the country, and steal the coalitions' jobs'!

i thoroughly enjoyed nigel farage's lunchtime sob story, about everyone being absolutely rotten to him and his party.... though it might've been best placed as a part of 'the archers' storyline 10 mins later, plus sheep noise fx?

Back on the Europe debate with renewed confidence I see!

[handsomefortune]

have you tried - http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-people-grumpy thread?

[teamsaint]

have you tried - http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-people-grumpy thread?

no point, its **** !!

[ahinton]

The EU now includes much of what is considered Central & Eastern Europe, not just Western Europe, and, of course, there are still countries queuing to join. Remaining countries are associate members or are tied in some way to the EU. To all intents and purposes the EU now represents Europe and may well eventually expand into Asia.

Even Russia has a Partnership & Co-operation Agreement with the EU and there are moves to strengthen this further.

It includes some of "what is considered Central & Eastern Europe", yes, but it isn't actually much of it at all, only what is now considered to be Central and Eastern Europe; no Albania, no Turkey, no Ukraine, Moldova or Belarus, no Georgia, Azerbaijan or Armenia, none of the five "stans" and, above all, no Russia. Add to that the absence so far of Lebanon, Israel, Palestine-to-be, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan as well as Kuwait and UAE and the nations of north Africa that are separated from Africa proper by the Sahara, i.e. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt and it will be seen that the currently constituted 27-nation EU is but a tiny fraction of Greater Europe in geographical area, albeit some two-thirds of it in population terms.

I find it curious that some Britons apparently did not believe that the Common Market would expand both politically and economically after they voted 'Yes' in 1975.

I would, too, had that been the case; is there any real evidence in support of such a view, though?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

now Flashman has everyone looking at and talking about the EU what are we not looking at? ..banks? privatisation of the NHS? taxation? the economy? privatisation of the wlfare state and council services a la Barnet?

gee wizz wadda ruze momma .... for something that is very likely to never come about .... he has to still be leader, get elected and have the negotiations in 2017 eh .... that is forever in our crisi ridden world, planning 4 minutes ahead may be over reaching never mind 4 weeks .... it is never never land .... a fantasy placation of the very angry mother who sent all bad conservative boys to boarding school .... and who later beat the vegetables they became with her hand bag

whatever it is it has to be smoke and mirrors ....

does any one really think the EU banks and financial system can last that long? that the riots in southern Europe will not increase to major disorder, that many Mediterranean countries' governments will have been overthrown by then?

Flasman posture again, he reminds me of no one so much as the Prince Regent His Plumpness Flashman defeats Boney eh? yippeeeee.......

[MrGongGong]

Why would we want to do that just because we have left Europe?

P.S. Europe is showing itself to be either dis-interested or incompetent in tackling over-fishing.

1: We can't "leave" Europe ........... look at a map
2: The kippers policies would have us in a war with Iceland (and they have Björk )

and in reply to Jazzbo

I did Henry V for O level , it seems that Davy and chums haven't read it !!!

[Mr Pee]

1: We can't "leave" Europe ........... look at a map

Norway and Switzerland are in Europe.....we are not....look at a map.....

[scottycelt]

It includes some of "what is considered Central & Eastern Europe", yes, but it isn't actually much of it at all, only what is now considered to be Central and Eastern Europe; no Albania, no Turkey, no Ukraine, Moldova or Belarus, no Georgia, Azerbaijan or Armenia, none of the five "stans" and, above all, no Russia. Add to that the absence so far of Lebanon, Israel, Palestine-to-be, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan as well as Kuwait and UAE and the nations of north Africa that are separated from Africa proper by the Sahara, i.e. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt and it will be seen that the currently constituted 27-nation EU is but a tiny fraction of Greater Europe in geographical area, albeit some two-thirds of it in population terms.

Has the definition of 'Europe' now changed as well, ahinton ... ?

Here's a handy little map (relatively modern) of the Europe possibly more familiar to others here which is most helpful when discussing the EU in relation to the whole of Europe. Good to see little EFTA hanging on but it too needs it's essential and very strong ties with the EU to survive!

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/countries_europe_map.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/europe_map.htm&h=1162&w=1200&sz=354&tbnid=7CahRjGJcysOwM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=89&prev=/search%3Fq%3DEurope%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=Europe&usg=__TRRoxvmnpQYIV48O8KDzBSgy2Yc=&docid=9gHz4_vIP7bAnM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AFUBUYmBDOuQ0QXJ_ICoAg&ved=0CFMQ9QEwBg&dur=1875

I would, too, had that been the case; is there any real evidence in support of such a view, though?

It is certainly not my view, merely the current claim of some of those who say they voted 'Yes' in 1975?

[handsomefortune]

what are we not looking at? ..banks? privatisation of the NHS? taxation? the economy? privatisation of the welfare state and council services a la Barnet?

precisely. not to mention unemployment figures that publicly have been seriously masssaged ....and are set to rise further, to 'normal' tory levels. or the race riots that dave beckons every time he mentions leaving the eu, as all the wrong uns get a whiff of the myth that there'll be 'more jobs for them', and they get to go eastern european bashing into the bargain.

dave's euro 'cleavage' is a decoy.

the idea that rank outsider nigel will 'come to the rescue' is totally absurd, and the media are not helpful in this context imo. though the best 'advice' to the electorate here (ironically) came from beeb european guests - apparently they are sick to death of dave's huffing and puffing. this matters to the eu apparently, who no more want to have to deal with dave & co, than do the majority of the electorate here. but as a psb radio listener, it's pretty insulting to have to have official confirmation of the coalition's utter uselessness from some bloke from europe, who we've never, ever heard of before, and probably wont do again!

ahem, it's time to set bjork on dave and nigel, and at full volume, 24/7, quite regardless of discussions about the superficial euro cleavage, harry's bum, or kate's nausea!

[teamsaint]

1: We can't "leave" Europe ........... look at a map
2: The kippers policies would have us in a war with Iceland (and they have Björk )

and in reply to Jazzbo

I did Henry V for O level , it seems that Davy and chums haven't read it !!!

.surely a bigger con artist than anything Brussels has to offer.

[amateur51]

now Flashman has everyone looking at and talking about the EU what are we not looking at? ..banks? privatisation of the NHS? taxation? the economy? privatisation of the wlfare state and council services a la Barnet?

gee wizz wadda ruze momma .... for something that is very likely to never come about .... he has to still be leader, get elected and have the negotiations in 2017 eh .... that is forever in our crisi ridden world, planning 4 minutes ahead may be over reaching never mind 4 weeks .... it is never never land .... a fantasy placation of the very angry mother who sent all bad conservative boys to boarding school .... and who later beat the vegetables they became with her hand bag

whatever it is it has to be smoke and mirrors ....

does any one really think the EU banks and financial system can last that long? that the riots in southern Europe will not increase to major disorder, that many Mediterranean countries' governments will have been overthrown by then?

Flasman posture again, he reminds me of no one so much as the Prince Regent His Plumpness Flashman defeats Boney eh? yippeeeee.......

Can anyone remember what's happening about Leveson's recommendations?

Me neither!

[Beef Oven]

1: We can't "leave" Europe ........... look at a map
2: The kippers policies would have us in a war with Iceland (and they have Björk )

and in reply to Jazzbo

I did Henry V for O level , it seems that Davy and chums haven't read it !!!

1: Britain is not in Europe......check on a map if you won't take my word
2: A war with Iceland is long overdue
3: I did English Literature for O'level

[cloughie]

There was a vote on membership - just before we joined. If the next referendum says we should stay in, how soon after that should there be a third referendum?

I don't remember a vote on membership before we joined - I remember a referendum on whether we stayed in in 1975- at that time there would have been a lot less to untangle than there is now and the cost of not been in much less then.

[handsomefortune]

Can anyone remember what's happening about Leveson's recommendations?

Me neither!

http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2013/01/was-our-watergate-political-establishment-being-allowed-get-away-it

[Beef Oven]

Can anyone remember what's happening about Leveson's recommendations?

Me neither!

There are more important issues to be discussed at the moment Amsy