Congratulations, Gordon

[amateur51]

I am not in the business of supporting the labour party, but another lie put about is that labour was reckless with public spending.
The truth is that until the banks crashed, they broadly kept public spending at the long term average for governments of both parties.In fact for most of their tenure, it was well below the important 40% of GDP level.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-spending-1963

Thanks for this teams

[teamsaint]

You are right, of course, and belies my stated belief that there are too many people on the planet and especially in the UK. That is the one thing that I can't square within myself. We need more and more people of younger age to earn money to pay tax to fund the pensions and the drain on the NHS of the ever-increasing number of elderly.

To discuss this point sensibly, some reliable statistics are required. Real (not made up) likely life spans, percentage of working population to non working in the future, likely population patterns, likely health spending( not the scare mongering type which tells us health care spending must always go up), cost benefit analysis of more holistic/ preventative health care and so on. such statistics are very hard to find, and the arguments are mired in political spin, sadly, which currently seem to support a direction of travel which will see todays working people retire on £140 a week, at age 75.

[Serial_Apologist]

You are right, of course, and belies my stated belief that there are too many people on the planet and especially in the UK. That is the one thing that I can't square within myself. We need more and more people of younger age to earn money to pay tax to fund the pensions and the drain on the NHS of the ever-increasing number of elderly.

Preventative health, much spoken of but under-implemented, is the solution to many of the costly illnesses requiring research and new drugs. Saying so won't do much for the present generation, or even the overweight next one, but that coupled with better diet will be the logistical solution in the longterm.

[teamsaint]

Preventative health, much spoken of but under-implemented, is the solution to many of the costly illnesses requiring research and new drugs. Saying so won't do much for the present generation, or even the overweight next one, but that coupled with better diet will be the logistical solution in the longterm.

yes, quite right, S-A. When I hear about the apparently inevitable, ever rising cost of healthcare, and the requisite neceaary increase in spending,I tend to wonder exactly who is telling us that costs must keep rising.
I suspect that it is the various industries involved. They would be daft not to.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

thanks for that excellent link to the Graun data pages teamsaint ....

[ahinton]

Preventative health, much spoken of but under-implemented, is the solution to many of the costly illnesses requiring research and new drugs. Saying so won't do much for the present generation, or even the overweight next one, but that coupled with better diet will be the logistical solution in the longterm.

This won't help the fundamental problem of funding retirement or upper age but it will certainly help and I fully agree with your stance on this.

[Stunsworth]

Of course he wasn't, but he and his henchpersons nevertheless did little to reduce its adverse effects.

Well, apart from coordinating global action to avoid a depression, and then saving the banking sector in the UK.

Meanwhile let's not forget that before the crash the Tories were complaining that there was _too_ much regulation in the city.

[Barbirollians]

Well, apart from coordinating global action to avoid a depression, and then saving the banking sector in the UK.

Meanwhile let's not forget that before the crash the Tories were complaining that there was _too_ much regulation in the city.

Exactly ! There can be little doubt that had the Tories been in power things would have been much worse . Osborne would give his eye teeth for the growth rate when Labour left power .

It is also forgetten that Labour had to spend a considerable amount on schools and the NHS in particular after they had been starved of funds from 1979 .

[Resurrection Man]

Preventative health, much spoken of but under-implemented, is the solution to many of the costly illnesses requiring research and new drugs. Saying so won't do much for the present generation, or even the overweight next one, but that coupled with better diet will be the logistical solution in the longterm.

So you'd be agreeing with Westminster Council's suggested policy re obesity then ?

[Resurrection Man]

yes, quite right, S-A. When I hear about the apparently inevitable, ever rising cost of healthcare, and the requisite neceaary increase in spending,I tend to wonder exactly who is telling us that costs must keep rising.
I suspect that it is the various industries involved. They would be daft not to.

The costs keep rising because of the 'tick-box' and 'outcomes' culture that has been pushed onto the NHS by both this Government and the last one. GP's seem increasingly to be the entry point for a load of hospital tests for something that is nothing more nor less then old age and the general breakdown and wear and tear of the body and for which there is no 'fix'. Other than to re-educate expectations of some of the elderly for whom these never-ending visits to the doctors and the hospital are as much a social diary as anything to do with health. And because modern medicine has got to the point with pills for cholesterol/hypertension/adult-onset diabetes then the life expectancy HAS increased but now aches and pains which are part of the body getting old come to the fore. Prior to the daily pill intake, these aches and pains wouldn't manifest themselves as the patient would be dead.

Cue better preventative medicine but that isn't going to have much effect on the elderly. To be honest, looking at the ToL waddling down our local High Street I don't hold out much hope for the future either. Are these people so ignorant that they don't realise what they are doing to themselves?

[Resurrection Man]

I am not in the business of supporting the labour party, but another lie put about is that labour was reckless with public spending.
The truth is that until the banks crashed, they broadly kept public spending at the long term average for governments of both parties.In fact for most of their tenure, it was well below the important 40% of GDP level.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-spending-1963

That's not my interpretation of that graph, ts. From 2000 onwards there was a steady rise ....

[amateur51]

The costs keep rising because of the 'tick-box' and 'outcomes' culture that has been pushed onto the NHS by both this Government and the last one. GP's seem increasingly to be the entry point for a load of hospital tests for something that is nothing more nor less then old age and the general breakdown and wear and tear of the body and for which there is no 'fix'. Other than to re-educate expectations of some of the elderly for whom these never-ending visits to the doctors and the hospital are as much a social diary as anything to do with health. And because modern medicine has got to the point with pills for cholesterol/hypertension/adult-onset diabetes then the life expectancy HAS increased but now aches and pains which are part of the body getting old come to the fore. Prior to the daily pill intake, these aches and pains wouldn't manifest themselves as the patient would be dead.

Cue better preventative medicine but that isn't going to have much effect on the elderly. To be honest, looking at the ToL waddling down our local High Street I don't hold out much hope for the future either. Are these people so ignorant that they don't realise what they are doing to themselves?

If I'm still alive in ten years, when I'll be 71, I look forward to reminding you of this post RM when you'll be how old? Let's see what time & tide and general living stresses take out of your physical and emotional well-being in your later years

[Resurrection Man]

Well, apart from coordinating global action to avoid a depression, and then saving the banking sector in the UK.

....

Oh, I was forgetting ! Saint George ...Saviour of the World.

[Resurrection Man]

ams, I have no expectations but understand the realities of life and of getting old. I don't relish it. In ten years time I will be 73. I may well go out in a blaze of adventure, fun and lust.

[amateur51]

Oh, I was forgetting ! Saint George ...Saviour of the World.

I thought his name was Gordon