Is true socialism possible?

[Beef Oven]

I think that those with the broadest shoulders should carry the biggest burdon

[decantor]

Decantor,

I was going to reply to your reply to my treatise on Marxism, but looking at how the thread has developed, I think the scent has gone cold. Another battle, another day!

(BTW, don't get me started on the promiscuous starting of sentences with 'so'....mainly by academics who should know better....when there is no sense of consequence.)

Agreed - a pity. (And agreed - a disgrace). My thanks for the acknowledgement - and for time to sharpen my rusty sword.

[Resurrection Man]

are you suggesting that we finance public services on the basis that everybody smokes 40 a day, but that if you can prove you don't, you get a discount?

Perhaps before looking around for scapegoats, shirkers, fat people, rock climbers who fall off and so on, we should look at REAL priorities. At the top. In public spending.Trident.invading other countries. Insane salaries for CEO's of small local authorities. Etc etc etc.

No it was in response to the claim regarding taking out a loan if one needed an operation that was not available on the NHS. The argument put forward being that a loan was not affordable...at least that was my interpretation. I am not saying that that is ideal. In an ideal world the NHS would have infinite funding but it does not. So, if you need an operation for your varicose veins and it is available privately then it comes down to your own priorities.

[Resurrection Man]

duplicate

[Resurrection Man]

I think that those with the broadest shoulders should carry the biggest burdon

Well Westminster Council would agree with you.

[Serial_Apologist]

Depression, and the feeling of being surplus to requirements, together with stress and uncertainty, play a big part in general poor health in our kind of society.

[Serial_Apologist]

Don't be daft , its so much easier to get people to hate those hideous people in wheelchairs who clog up the streets and expect us to finance their lives of luxury

Did you spot my Henry Cow link in #111, GG?

http://www.lyricstime.com/henry-cow-nine-funerals-of-the-citizen-king-lyrics.html

[MrGongGong]

Did you spot my Henry Cow link in #111, GG?

http://www.lyricstime.com/henry-cow-...ng-lyrics.html

Indeed I did

[Serial_Apologist]

[Beef Oven]

Did you spot my Henry Cow link in #111, GG?

http://www.lyricstime.com/henry-cow-...ng-lyrics.html

No, I missed it!

Went back and listened - great track one of my faves

[scottycelt]

That's not the same as not being offered by the NHS; it's a consequence of how the NHS is organised in England. .

Whether it's a consequence of how the NHS is organised in England or on the dark side of the Moon, Flossie, it is still a fact that the NHS feels itself unable to offer certain types of operations in my part of the world. Even worse, as this has been the case for many years now, we can't even blame David Cameron or Jeremy Hunt for it. Drat!

You have to otherwise you'd :cry: at such naivety (putting it kindly).

Thank you for your now legendary kindness, Flossie, and I certainly agree the idea is very, very simple, indeed.

Here it is again in its glorious simplicity, albeit in a slightly more expanded form:

Most families in England secure loans in order to buy their own homes, drive cars (sometimes multiple), go on hols abroad, etc etc. To be in a position to do the same for an operation, not available on the NHS in some parts of England, does not require a huge leap of imagination, even if you are in the very fortunate position of being a English refugee who has long fled the mother country by successfully breaching the ramparts of Hadrian's Wall?

If you still find yourself in stitches at the simplicity of it all maybe these can still be removed free of charge by the NHS in Scotland?

[kleines c]

c

[Beef Oven]

Happy New Year, Simon! If I may address your opening question directly:



Do we really exist? Socialism, like all -isms, are ideological abstractions. As a natural scientist, I prefer models, not to mention the occasional supermodel. Due to unprecedented demand from around the world, here are some economic supermodels for everyone reading The Radio 3 Forum this weekend:

1. SOCIALISM

You have 2 cows. You give one to your neighbour.

2. COMMUNISM

You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk.

3. FASCISM

You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk.

4. NAZISM

You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you.

5. BUREAUCRATISM

You have 2 cows. The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other, and then throws the milk away ...

6. TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM

You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.

7. SURREALISM

You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

8. THE c PLAN

You have two cows. You offer one of them a drink, and then ask the other one to dance. If it is kleines c, he invites you to skate at Somerset House with Bad Zuke.

http://www.somersethouse.org.uk/

He tells you that it is an intense pleasure. Both cows agree. They have both metamorphosed themselves into supermodels. The one on the left looks very attractive, Simon. Not to your taste, however? I am sure that scottycelt would be up for it this morning, even if he cannot make it to Somerset House tonight! I propose some toast: to scottycelt! Three cheers from kleines c (breakfast coffee)!

#6 looks like a goer

[MrGongGong]

#6 looks like a goer

In your fishy dreams matey
the problem with 6 is that you have to steal someone elses' land to keep them on

[kleines c]

c