The Ten Myths of DAB

[Resurrection Man]

Just watching the paint dry.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

I can only assume from your correspondence style in this thread that when you were an MD you were of the type 'I know best, I'm not interested in your views, do as I say' type.

I've already drawn attention in #160 to PWC's description of how they arrived at the benefits total in the CBA. And I've also pointed out that this is not the full CBA analysis, merely the methodology. I accept that it's not perfect, but it never will be as too many of the benefits and drawbacks of the switch are qualitative.

My personal CBA would be that if I were deciding that I wanted to add reception of BBC R3 to my hi-fi set up (I don't use any portable receivers) I could do it either (a) via FM (a Marantz ST6003 would do) at a cost of ~£239 or (b) I might observe that I already have Freeview DTT feeding a DAC for TV, so why don't I just use that for radio - cost £0. So my CBA is a beneifit of £239 (for two people. Scaled up across the UK, that's a benefit of £7.2 b.

When you were an MD I would have hoped that you understood that in the assessment of a project that had outcomes which were difficult to value (health and safety falls into that category) that any calculation of NPV would be subject to much debate. I doubt you'll ever achieve any counter CBA supporting the retention of FM that would stand scrutiny in equal measure as PWC's assessment has. But at least this difficulty serves your purpose merely to whine about the unfairness of it all.

[vinteuil]

My personal cost benefit analysis -

We have two small DAB portables.

We have a good FM stereo system.
We also have seven FM portables.
We have two FM radios in the cars.

If we had to abandon the FM and replace with DAB systems, this household of two wd incur extra costs of say £2,000. Scaled up across the UK, that's a cost of - I don't know - UK households times £2,000...

[Resurrection Man]

Very pertinent CBA, vinteuil. I shudder to think what the cost would be to replace our built-in FM radios in our cars. TBH...given their age I doubt that it would be possible.

I did read an interesting post on another forum positing an increase in road accidents post any FM Switch Off as people fiddled with their mobiles or ipods trying to find the next mp3 track to listen to.

[Sir Velo]

My personal cost benefit analysis -

We have two small DAB portables.

We have a good FM stereo system.
We also have seven FM portables.
We have two FM radios in the cars.

If we had to abandon the FM and replace with DAB systems, this household of two wd incur extra costs of say £2,000. Scaled up across the UK, that's a cost of - I don't know - UK households times £2,000...

Assuming everyone in the UK is a millionaire perhaps.

I sincerely doubt that every person in the UK owns 5 FM radios; or would be prepared to spend £200 on each. £2-300 per capita, as an average spend, would be nearer the mark, for those still listening to FM. Moreover, bear in mind, that a large proportion of the populace already own digital radios (particularly those aged under 45 or so), or listen via the internet (e.g. through Squeezebox; itunes etc), and would not need to make any switch.

[MrGongGong]

Assuming everyone in the UK is a millionaire perhaps.

I sincerely doubt that every person in the UK owns 5 FM radios; or would be prepared to spend £200 on each. £2-300 per capita, as an average spend, would be nearer the mark, for those still listening to FM. Moreover, bear in mind, that a large proportion of the populace already own digital radios, and would not need to make the switch.

If you are THAT serious about it
you can simply buy one of these
and transmit to FM from a computer etc etc

[Resurrection Man]

Assuming everyone in the UK is a millionaire perhaps.

I sincerely doubt that every person in the UK owns 5 FM radios; or would be prepared to spend £200 on each. £2-300 per capita, as an average spend, would be nearer the mark, for those still listening to FM. Moreover, bear in mind, that a large proportion of the populace already own digital radios, and would not need to make the switch.

Well, you have to define 'large' and also ask the question how many of those with a DAB radio are actually using it to listen to DAB, how many have their's on the shelf because of inadequate signal/poor battery consumption and how many are using the FM part of the radio. That is the question we should be asking.

Ofcom's own estimates of the UK's FM radio 'estate' is around the 100 million mark.

[Resurrection Man]

If you are THAT serious about it
you can simply buy one of these
and transmit to FM from a computer etc etc

Apart from the limited range and poor audio quality plus eating into your internet bandwidth, what about those without a computer or internet connection. We are talking radio here!

[MrGongGong]

Apart from the limited range and poor audio quality plus eating into your internet bandwidth, what about those without a computer or internet connection. We are talking radio here!

IT WAS A JOKE

[Resurrection Man]

AIC...I will have one last attempt. Please actually read what I am writing before hitting those keys and going off on yet another tangent.

Regarding the CBA....yes, they explained the methodology (a bit vaguely), yes they will have used a spreadsheet, no - I would not expect to see a copy of the spreadsheet but I would expect to see at least some of the basic raw data or reference to where it can be found. £780 million is one of the possible benefits...I repeat benefit...it is there in the bloody PwC but it is derived from a figure of £24.90. Now where did this come from? If you are happy to accept that figure at face value then I am touched by your naivety.

Next, DAB radios and the partially sighted. I am NOT talking about buttons. I am talking about one of the BENEFITS claimed for DAB being the fact that you can see (if you are so minded) the name of the track being played, for example. That is what the report referred to. That benefit is not relevant to partially sighted people.

I then quote a study carried out by RNIB. In this report they stated that 70% of people still required help after their radios were initially set-up for them. You then claim that because of your experience with ONE person that the RNIB report is irrelevant. That smacks of arrogance.

When I was MD I employed people who actually thought before hitting the keys. Who actually read things before going off on one.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

I'll try again, see if you can actually read the PWC report more completely. In their discussion of the BENEFITS they elaborate at some length. Their commentary on WTP is illuminating:

We have based our willingness to pay for digital radio estimates on several studies including:
1 BBC Human Capital 2004: considers the willingness to pay (WTP) of consumers (and citizens) to BBC services, both from a top-down approach (i.e. the bundle of BBC services) as well as bottom-up approach (i.e. the WTP for each type of service).
2 Aegis 2000: WTP for radio stations including digital radio, based on assumption that digital radio will have improved data services and CD quality sound.
3 Radiocommunications Agency 2001: considers the economic impact of radio, including the consumer benefits of radio based on a survey of how much consumers are willing to pay for radio.
4 Europe Economics 2006: estimates the consumer surplus based on BBC Human Capital WTP.

Have you read the sources?

I then quote a study carried out by RNIB. In this report they stated that 70% of people still required help after their radios were initially set-up for them. You then claim that because of your experience with ONE person that the RNIB report is irrelevant. That smacks of arrogance.

And perhaps you'll read my posts more carefully. The example I quoted involved me tuning the radio presets for the blind person., i.e.exactly as per the RNIB report. I did not contradict it, nor was there any arrogance as you delight in imagining. But my example does point out the niggardliness of the comment: the effort involved is pootling - beneath comment. Only you would blow it up to a crisis.

[Sir Velo]

Well, you have to define 'large' and also ask the question ... how many are using the FM part of the radio. That is the question we should be asking.

With respect RM, that is not the question. As we are trying to establish the costs to the great British public of switching over to DAB those that own DAB/FM radios, even if they currently only listen to the FM signal, will not need to incur any additional expenditure.

[vinteuil]

those that own DAB/FM radios, even if they currently only listen to the FM signal, will not need to incur any additional expenditure.

... ahem. We have a little DAB radio in the kitchen and one in the living room.

Over the years we have acquired various other portable FM radios which we can listen to -

1. in the dining room
2. in the bathroom
3. in the bedroom
4. in the spare room
5. in the study

So I shall need to acquire a means of listening in these five rooms if FM is removed, even tho' we have a couple of DAB radios.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

... ahem. We have a little DAB radio in the kitchen and one in the living room.

Over the years we have acquired various other portable FM radios which we can listen to -

1. in the dining room
2. in the bathroom
3. in the bedroom
4. in the spare room
5. in the study

So I shall need to acquire a means of listening in these five rooms if FM is removed, even tho' we have a couple of DAB radios.

Well, Currys have small DAB portables as cheap as £20. And you don't need a DAB receiver for your hifi - a Humax Feeview receiver will give you excellent audio quality, a revelation after FM!

[Sir Velo]

... ahem. We have a little DAB radio in the kitchen and one in the living room.

Over the years we have acquired various other portable FM radios which we can listen to -

1. in the dining room
2. in the bathroom
3. in the bedroom
4. in the spare room
5. in the study

So I shall need to acquire a means of listening in these five rooms if FM is removed, even tho' we have a couple of DAB radios.

Ok, but I wouldn't necessarily extrapolate from this that the rest of the UK shares your need for a radio in every room. You could, after all, make do with one radio and carry it to the room you're going to be in; that's the whole point of a portable radio surely?

Thinking about it, as you're obviously not short of a bob or two, would it not be a simpler and more elegant solution to go for a wireless multi-room audio set up, where you could listen not only to radio, but CDs, digital streaming etc in every room? Moreover, it would save you the expense of having to replace each radio.