The changing face of Britain

[Mary Chambers]

One of the reasons why some parents send their children to private schools has been so that they gain fluency in languages , many private schools stress the international nature of the background of their students YET in state schools this is sometimes presented as a problem.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm slightly surprised, as my son and daughter-in-law have also been looking at private schools for the boy, and have found them rather overwhelmingly White British (to use the census term), in a very multi-racial area.

I take your point about being bilingual, and I've known many such people, including my grandchildren's other grandmother, who is Polish though born in England. She spoke mainly Polish until she went to school, and now speaks much better English than most English people. She still speaks Polish with her brothers and sisters.

[amateur51]

Such a shame that the OP hasn't been able to share his thoughts about what he means by a 'tragedy'

[eighthobstruction]

Such a shame that the OP hasn't been able to share his thoughts about what he means by a 'tragedy'

Mybe he don'ta speeka da same language???....

[eighthobstruction]

Tragedy
When the feelings gone and you can't go on
Its tragedy
When the morning cries and you don't know why
Its hard to bear
With no-one to love you youre
Goin nowhere
Tragedy
When you lose control and you got no soul
Its tragedy
When the morning cries and you don't know why
Its hard to bear
With no-one to love you youre
Goin nowhere

[teamsaint]

Tragedy
When the feelings gone and you can't go on
Its tragedy
When the morning cries and you don't know why
Its hard to bear
With no-one to love you youre
Goin nowhere
Tragedy
When you lose control and you got no soul
Its tragedy
When the morning cries and you don't know why
Its hard to bear
With no-one to love you youre
Goin nowhere

I really wanted to post a youtube link for this, but respectful of this being a(predominantly) classical music forum, I didn't .

Top Quoting, 8O.

[Lateralthinking1]

I know it is the Brothers Gibb but I couldn't work out who it was aimed at - the Ironmasters perhaps?

Boston and Skegness Constituency

2001 - Con 42.9%, UKIP 1.8% (Total - 1.8%) (44.7%)
2005 - Con 46.2%, UKIP 9.6%, BNP 2.4% (Total - 12.0%) (58.2%)
2010 - Con 49.4%, UKIP 9.5%, BNP 5.3% (Total - 14.8%) (64.2%)

If that is the political direction you prefer, stick to the existing policy!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Enough reasonably priced housing for people at all income levels would make our country a much better place to live in.
.

For a while, yes, but in 10 years there will be another few million people to house on land taken from essential farmland, reducing still further our ability to feed ouselves; unless, of course, we stop kidding ourselves that we can go on repreproducing at a faster rate than we are dying.

[MrGongGong]

I know it is the Brothers Gibb but I couldn't work out who it was aimed at - the Ironmasters perhaps?

Boston and Skegness Constituency

2001 - Con 42.9%, UKIP 1.8% (Total - 1.8%) (44.7%)
2005 - Con 46.2%, UKIP 9.6%, BNP 2.4% (Total - 12.0%) (58.2%)
2010 - Con 49.4%, UKIP 9.5%, BNP 5.3% (Total - 14.8%) (64.2%)

If that is the political direction you prefer, stick to the existing policy!

Are you seriously suggesting that we should be bullied by bigots ?

[teamsaint]

For a while, yes, but in 10 years there will be another few million people to house on land taken from essential farmland, reducing still further our ability to feed ouselves; unless, of course, we stop kidding ourselves that we can go on repreproducing at a faster rate than we are dying.

well there aren't enough houses even for the existing population to be adequately housed at sensible cost, so the issue needs addressing.
As for supposed over population....that is perhaps another, and very contoversial discussion, maybe for elsewhere.
Again, though, resource issues are to the fore, not least those of European and American consumption.

[Lateralthinking1]

Are you seriously suggesting that we should be bullied by bigots ?

No. I am saying that that it is a fact of life that:

(a) those who support ongoing immigration at the current levels will guarantee that sometime between 2020 and 2030 Britain will not be in the EU and there will no longer be an NHS : voters will consistently elect a right wing Conservative Party under Boris Johnson or a coalition between the Conservatives and UKIP to address the issue, inadvertently with other policy consequences

and

(b) those who oppose it might keep Britain in the EU and maintain something of the NHS - voters, particularly but not exclusively white working class voters, will not abandon Labour and the Liberal Democrats in such huge numbers as the economy gets worse.

I suppose one might describe the phenomenon as ironic. No one will get everything they want - voters will vote as voters will vote, whatever the competing senses of morality involved - and it is a question of which way you choose to go. I would keep the NHS!

Actually, all the signs are that we will have up to eight more years of this, with the most severe economic impacts, and then a sudden, massive, backlash with us leaving the EU under a Government that will break the NHS and very probably the BBC too. This is a situation in which the traditional left will hold onto its moral principles just long enough to kill the public sector off completely.

[MrGongGong]

If I lived in London I might go to this

http://www.thersa.org/events/our-events/the-runnymede-race-debate-do-racists-have-a-right-to-be-heard

[Lateralthinking1]

If I lived in London I might go to this

http://www.thersa.org/events/our-eve...ht-to-be-heard

From my perspective, it is the current policy that is racist as it will lead increasingly to racial conflict between UK citizens.

As someone who specialised in race relations at university, it really sickens me to see the substantial advances made by the RRA 1976 and in a myriad of ways since now being placed in jeopardy. It is my very strong view that significant numbers of people who are instinctively non-racist - many born since the early 1980s - are being turned by extremely unwise policies foisted upon them.

I question those on the left who hold to theory that was entirely right when the population was at 50m but is now wholly in sync with the CBI as it drives down wages ever further and "thieves" what remains of the family silver. It is very foolhardy. I might add that I wasn't at anti-apartheid benefit gigs and the like 25 years ago on a whim, nor indeed at the UN in the 1990s because I had nothing better to do. This is a simple matter of numbers and resources, priorities and practicalities and, yes, common sense.

[Flosshilde]

No. I am saying that that it is a fact of life that:

(a) those who support ongoing immigration at the current levels will guarantee that sometime between 2020 and 2030 Britain will not be in the EU and there will no longer be an NHS : voters will consistently elect a right wing Conservative Party under Boris Johnson or a coalition between the Conservatives and UKIP to address the issue, inadvertently with other policy consequences

and

(b) those who oppose it might keep Britain in the EU and maintain something of the NHS - voters, particularly but not exclusively white working class voters, will not abandon Labour and the Liberal Democrats in such huge numbers as the economy gets worse.

Don't these two contradict each other? Or do you mean 'or' rather than 'and'?

Actually, all the signs are that we will have up to eight more years of this, with the most severe economic impacts, and then a sudden, massive, backlash with us leaving the EU under a Government that will break the NHS and very probably the BBC too. This is a situation in which the traditional left will hold onto its moral principles just long enough to kill the public sector off completely.

The present government shows every sign of wanting to do this - the recession is just an excuse for an 'austerity' they would impose anyway - without it having anything to do with 'immigration'. Of course, once the 'recession' and 'skivers' scapegoats no longer work 'immigration' will prove to be a handy substitute.

[MrGongGong]

I think the title of this thread is somewhat misleading
there is a "changing face" but it's more on the level of a bit of eye shadow than a complete theatrical makeup !

The supposed "crisis" is somewhat overplayed in my experience, I spend a lot of time in parts of the UK that are supposedly (if one believes the media !) "no go areas" or "hostile" often working with the very people who are seen to be the "problem"....... if one looks at the figures (the Guardian interactive versions are good if those of you slightly to the right of Castro can bear to go there ?) one sees that far from being a huge problem that

13% in England and Wales born outside UK.

and

86% of people describe themselves as "white" ..........

have a look at the maps for Derbyshire

How much of this is Class rather than race ?
Indian surgeons........ good , Indian taxi drivers ....... stealing our jobs !

[Lateralthinking1]

Flosshilde, I am not sure if it is an 'and' or an 'or' - or whether it matters to the point made. This Government, which I and many others would argue is to the right of any other in recent history, will in time be viewed as to the left of subsequent developments. When it goes - in 2015 or 2020 - it will be seen as having failed. The Tories are very ready to swing to the right. And where Hague, Howard and IDS failed, this time there won't be failure. We can see that in the economy and in the voting patterns.

It might be that Labour is elected in 2015. It has no more than five years to prove that Blair/Brown wasn't simply a 13 year blip/aberration. I doubt very much that it can do it. And it certainly won't do it if the economy is still weak as is likely and more voters make a link with immigration. There are incidentally many second and third generation UK citizens who are vehemently opposed to huge increases in population and have no natural identification with the EU. There also many white middle class folk who are entirely happy with the current situation. To some extent, it is then indeed a class issue, to answer Mr GG's question.

At the same time, a wish to preserve the NHS is not a class issue. The wish to preserve green areas is not a class issue. Disability benefits are not a class issue. A liking of the BBC is not a class issue. Even membership of the EU is not a class issue. All it takes is for the recession to hit more people, for more people to resent those who have been in the country for five minutes taking jobs, and for there to be sporadic social unrest in the provinces and you've got your politicians ready to be voted in to "deal" with it. And when they do, you will find that services will be privatised and we will be out of the EU. One can talk about the percentages as still being small but the key to them is clusters. That is what will decide elections. Most marginal seats are in the sticks.

Ironically, I suspect that the one thing you won't get is a lowering of population numbers because "the right" are conflicted. They talk about constraints on immigration so that the public will believe them but they will never go against the wishes of the CBI. The upshot is that the left will win on immigration and nothing else but fortunately it will also retain the power to tut-tut about voters.