Patrick Moore dies

[Boilk]

Heather Couper received a letter from Patrick Moore when a teenager, encouraging her to become an astronomer, saying that being a woman was not an impediment. She felt encouraged, and the rest is history.

...she may beg to differ and claim: "the rest is herstory"

[Sydney Grew]

. . . "The trouble is . . . "

. . . “the only good . . . ”

Later in the interview with the Radio Times . . .

I am amused. Can you cite an on-line link to that Radio Times interview?

(On the general point, ten times too many books of course.)

[MrGongGong]

I am amused. Can you cite an on-line link to that Radio Times interview?

(On the general point, ten times too many books of course.)

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-12-10/sir-patrick-moores-last-radio-times-interview

[Flay]

Here is more from that article which helps the context:

It is possible that the clue to his intransigence lies in the death of his fiancée, Lorna, killed in a wartime bombing raid. “We were 20,” he says, falling into the staccato of suppressed emotion, “She was killed. That was that. It happens.”

Moore’s loyalty to Lorna has never wavered. In his 2003 autobiography, 80 Not Out, he confessed that after 60 years, “There were rare occasions when I could go for a whole half-hour without thinking of her – but not often.” This remains true.

“That is why I am a reluctant bachelor,” he says. “It’s such a long time ago now, 1940. But I still feel the same about Lorna and, if it had been the other way round, I think she’d have done the same.”

I think by "Kraut" he means extremist i.e. "Nazi"

I don't think we should read too much into this. He may have ruminated understandably about the war, but he did not go around blowing people up.

He has been there throughout my life. A great man.

And his Sibelius theme tune was perfect. I wonder if he chose it?

[Sydney Grew]

I think by "Kraut" he means extremist i.e. "Nazi"

I am not so sure of that. His remark chimes with what my father told me in very simple terms: "Never trust a German."

[Simon]

My mother's older cousin felt the same about the Japanese, to the extent that he would never buy or even ride in a Japanese car. He had seen such horrors in Burma that he loathed them all. Irrational, perhaps. But also understandable. What might we have felt had we been there, one wonders?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i value his life for his ability to just be himself whatever that was and share his enthusiasms with joy and a low budget

[Suffolkcoastal]

Being a keen amateur astronomer, I met Patrick on 3 occasions. The most memorable was when I had to meet him in Norwich as he was coming over to Lowestoft to open our society's newly refurbished observatory, before playing in a concert of his own music later that evening. He insisted on buying the coffee whilst we waited for the train, and signed some autographs for people who just came up to him. We then spent the 45 minute train journey together dicussing everything except Astronomy! Out chat centered on two of his other passions (which were also mine of course), music and cricket and I also gave him an Ornithology lesson as the journey progressed (the Norwich to Lowestoft line passes through some excellent bird watching country), which he thoroughly enjoyed, he was delighted to recognise a couple of species. The society took him out to lunch and he insisted on buying all the members a drink. He made a nice little speach at the school were our observatory was based, though as he humorously admitted, he was a little too large to actually get through the hatch into the main observatory.

On all occasions I found him a really generous and kind man and his enthusiasm was abolsutely infectious.

[Lateralthinking1]

Being a keen amateur astronomer, I met Patrick on 3 occasions. The most memorable was when I had to meet him in Norwich as he was coming over to Lowestoft to open our society's newly refurbished observatory, before playing in a concert of his own music later that evening. He insisted on buying the coffee whilst we waited for the train, and signed some autographs for people who just came up to him. We then spent the 45 minute train journey together dicussing everything except Astronomy! Out chat centered on two of his other passions (which were also mine of course), music and cricket and I also gave him an Ornithology lesson as the journey progressed (the Norwich to Lowestoft line passes through some excellent bird watching country), which he thoroughly enjoyed, he was delighted to recognise a couple of species. The society took him out to lunch and he insisted on buying all the members a drink. He made a nice little speach at the school were our observatory was based, though as he humorously admitted, he was a little too large to actually get through the hatch into the main observatory.

On all occasions I found him a really generous and kind man and his enthusiasm was abolsutely infectious.

What a great contribution. I am convinced by it.

[ahinton]

I am not so sure of that. His remark chimes with what my father told me in very simple terms: "Never trust a German."

It might, but that doesn't of itself make it defensible, does it? After all, "never trust a German" what? Mercedes-Benz car? Miele dishwasher? Symphony? Oh - "never trust a German person"; I see! Never mind if it's Handel, Brahms, a British monarch or who it might be - and no need, apparently, to provide a reason never to trust one. I'm not even sure that two world wars are sufficient excuse in themselves to justify such an attitude (especially 67 years after the latter one ended); after all, if the British monarchical succession rules at the end of Queen Victoria's reign were what they're like to become quite soon, we'd not have had most of the British monarchs that we did during the last century and, with "Kaiser Bill"'s position accordingly compromised, we might not then even have suffered those two world wars at all.

So - never trust anyone who advises people not to trust a German, perhaps...

[ahinton]

My mother's older cousin felt the same about the Japanese, to the extent that he would never buy or even ride in a Japanese car. He had seen such horrors in Burma that he loathed them all. Irrational, perhaps. But also understandable. What might we have felt had we been there, one wonders?

The same, no doubt - but, ultimately, there's no use for anyone in perpetuating such an attitude so as to foist it upon later generations of Japanese who were not even born until long after the end of the last world war.

[MrGongGong]

It might, but that doesn't of itself make it defensible, does it? After all, "never trust a German" what? Mercedes-Benz car? Miele dishwasher? Symphony? Oh - "never trust a German person"; I see! Never mind if it's Handel, Brahms, a British monarch or who it might be - and no need, apparently, to provide a reason never to trust one. I'm not even sure that two world wars are sufficient excuse in themselves to justify such an attitude (especially 67 years after the latter one ended); after all, if the British monarchical succession rules at the end of Queen Victoria's reign were what they're like to become quite soon, we'd not have had most of the British monarchs that we did during the last century and, with "Kaiser Bill"'s position accordingly compromised, we might not then even have suffered those two world wars at all.

So - never trust anyone who advises people not to trust a German, perhaps...

I don't "trust" the "Windsors"
but have great trust in

Stockhausen
Henze
Wagner

and the wonderful folks at Schoeps

[Lateralthinking1]

The same, no doubt - but, ultimately, there's no use for anyone in perpetuating such an attitude so as to foist it upon later generations of Japanese who were not even born until long after the end of the last world war.

While I agree with the modern sentiments behind your comments on the Germans and the Japanese, they are clearly written by someone who hasn't experienced war. One of my late uncles was in Burma and such were the impacts of his experience there, he was never able to talk about it. Another, who was my godfather, was among the troops who went into Belsen at the closing of war. I am supposed to tolerate holocaust deniers, some who claim in the media to be academics, in the name of free speech.

Moore was in RAF Bomber Command as a teenager. He may not have witnessed similar scenes but he was of a generation to have had friends who would have done. They had a right to a lifelong view, however outmoded. I suppose the key question is whether you think they should have been banned from expressing it, even though the trauma was such that they generally self-censored.

Incidentally, on the point about women, our astronomer friend had false teeth at 19. I don't know if that had any relevance.

[Simon]

The same, no doubt - but, ultimately, there's no use for anyone in perpetuating such an attitude so as to foist it upon later generations of Japanese who were not even born until long after the end of the last world war.

But it pays to be wary.

Could a nation that could, willingly and enthusiastically, behave with such barabarism 70 years ago, behave in such a way again? Or is the new generation's character and cultutral mindset so different that it's no longer possible?

Let's hope we never have to find out...

[Flay]

Simon, please do not drag this thread down. I am sure that just about every participating nation could have been interpreted as behaving barbarically (consider Dresden). Quite frankly, we just don't know...

Let's talk about Patrick Moore.