Things we didn't know about the B.B.C.

[Simon]

... to often express such strong views about 20th century music then claim never to have knowingly listened to Morton Feldman's music seems a little at odds !

Nothing illogical about that at all. (Though I know logic doesn't play a big part in your life...)

Most modern classical "music" that I've heard I haven't rated. Some I've liked, some I've thought sublime. Some has been atrocious noise. Hence my views.

Having now listened to a few of Mr Feldman's clips on youtube, although I don't consider the ones I heard to have been particularly offensive (one was quite soothing), they weren't the sort of things that would attract my attention or grab my emotions to the extent that I'd want to continue listening for very long. So, if that's his style, I'd probably switch over if they came on the radio, hence the fact that I didn't recall any. Res ipsa loquitur.

[Simon]

If I don't I doubt that I'll learn it from you. Claiming something is 'common sense' or 'reasonable' is to remove it from any sort of argument; it's usually the last resort of someone who has lost the argument.

Only if you deny the existence of reasonableness or common sense.

And, as I proved above (though there was of course no need to) both these are facts of life.

[Serial_Apologist]

Only if you deny the existence of reasonableness or common sense.

They are not synonymous...

And, as I proved above (though there was of course no need to) both these are facts of life.

Reasonableness is an attribute, common sense an inference.

[Simon]

They are not synonymous...

Reasonableness is an attribute, common sense an inference.

Can't disagree with either of those points, SA. Though quite why you posted I'm not sure, as I hadn't advanced opposing theories...!

Nonetheless, good to read a fundamentally logical comment on here from someone other than myself...

Edit: though thinking about it further, reasonableness could also be viewed logically as an inferred attribute... not an attribute in itself. Perhaps better not follow that too minutely...

[Flosshilde]

facts of life.

Another last resort.

[MrGongGong]

Having now listened to a few of Mr Feldman's clips on youtube, although I don't consider the ones I heard to have been particularly offensive (one was quite soothing), they weren't the sort of things that would attract my attention or grab my emotions to the extent that I'd want to continue listening for very long. So, if that's his style, I'd probably switch over if they came on the radio, hence the fact that I didn't recall any..

Oh poor simon (LOWERCASE) ....... You really think that context has no bearing on the perception of music do you and you seem to have such a narrow range of ideas about what music is for that i'm surprised that you manage to find ANY music that fit's your minuscule sieve !

and to appeal to "logic" whilst simultaneously apparently professing a belief in the sky fairy is ludicrous

and "facts of life"

[scottycelt]

I think some members' obvious total failure in comprehending terms like 'common sense' are quite revealing and might explain many of their views on various other matters. Non-comprehension of simple words and phrases and the personal rejection of official definitions in authorised dictionaries are quite openly espoused by these same members on occasion.

Common=widespread , sense=feeling. So if every member were to stick their finger in a burning flame the general experience of members would probably be that pain was felt, at least in what was left of the frazzled finger.

I'd be astonished if Flossie's and Mr GG's fingers would be much different, even if they are unable to accept the general definitions of 'fingers' and 'flames' in the first place.

Common sense, really ...

[MrGongGong]

"Common sense" when applied to not removing ones hand whilst chopping wood in the dark is very different to what is usually implied when folk appeal to it !

If it's "Non-comprehension of simple words and phrases " you want
how about this one "Thou shalt not kill" ........ seems fairly straightforward to me , but look what has happened to those who pretend to believe it ?

Common sense and flames here's someone walking on hot coals without getting burned



common sense ?

[Flosshilde]

Common=widespread , sense=feeling. So if every member were to stick their finger in a burning flame the general experience of members would probably be that pain was felt, at least in what was left of the frazzled finger.

I'd be astonished if Flossie's and Mr GG's fingers would be much different, even if they are unable to accept the general definitions of 'fingers' and 'flames' in the first place.

Common sense, really ...

I think that 'common sense' as you define it is verifiable fact, knowledge based on experience. 'Common sense' as simon (& so many others) use the term means 'what I think'.

[scottycelt]

"Common sense" when applied to not removing ones hand whilst chopping wood in the dark is very different to what is usually implied when folk appeal to it !

If it's "Non-comprehension of simple words and phrases " you want
how about this one "Thou shalt not kill" ........ seems fairly straightforward to me , but look what has happened to those who pretend to believe it ?

Common sense and flames here's someone walking on hot coals without getting burned



common sense ?

Common sense or experience does not necessarily mean that it applies to everyone ... there will always be exceptions to every rule. Miracles (or unexplained events if you prefer) can and do occur.

Common sense is simply 'common' to many people, usually the vast majority. Of course, the term can be misused in expressing personal opinion, but that does not mean there is no such thing as a 'common sense'.

True 'common sense' cannot be described as 'opinion' ... it's simply a reality.

[amateur51]

I think some members' obvious total failure in comprehending terms like 'common sense' are quite revealing and might explain many of their views on various other matters. Non-comprehension of simple words and phrases and the personal rejection of official definitions in authorised dictionaries are quite openly espoused by these same members on occasion.

Common=widespread , sense=feeling. So if every member were to stick their finger in a burning flame the general experience of members would probably be that pain was felt, at least in what was left of the frazzled finger.

I'd be astonished if Flossie's and Mr GG's fingers would be much different, even if they are unable to accept the general definitions of 'fingers' and 'flames' in the first place.

Common sense, really ...

But the expression "common sense" has more to do with the social and political hegemony prevalent in a society at a particular time than it has to do with the meaning of the words "common" and "sense" surely. One only has to look at the diminishing hold of Christianity in UK society over the last 50 years and the changes in social attitudes during the same period to see this.

[MrGongGong]

True 'common sense' cannot be described as 'opinion' ... it's simply a reality.

Like virgin birth you mean ?

[Flosshilde]

Common sense is simply 'common' to many people, usually the vast majority. Of course, the term can be misused in expressing personal opinion, but that does not mean there is no such thing as a 'common sense'.

So how do you distinguish between the 'misuse' of the term & its 'true' application?

[scottycelt]

Like virgin birth you mean ?

I'd have thought that proved the point made, as far as that it is at all possible. I agree that is wholly contrary to any idea of 'common sense'. However, as I've already hinted there may be more to reality than 'common sense'.

So you are, all of a sudden, now an apparent advocate of the actual existence of 'common sense' ... ?

[MrGongGong]

No Scotty it's a fiction that some present as "simply a reality"