Things we didn't know about the B.B.C.

[MrGongGong]

Someone else you know? Good heavens, you do know a lot of people, dont you?

I'm sure that said thesis, when complete, will be a revelation to us all...

As for your query about KCC - I bet even you really know the answer to that, don't you?

Actually Simon
I DO know a fair bit about music which is more than can be said for your predictable knee jerk reactions to anything unfamiliar
how about understanding that there are some people in the world who perceive things differently from you and that their perceptions are equally as valid as yours ?

I suggest you read a bit as you might learn something ....... Dahlhaus would be a good place to start (but you might struggle with the long words !)

[Simon]

Actually Simon
I DO know a fair bit about music

I know you do. I wouldn't argue with you on factual matters and would be prepared to learn from you. It's the political slants that I disagree with.

how about understanding that there are some people in the world who perceive things differently from you and that their perceptions are equally as valid as yours ?

Of course people perceive things differently. But I'm not a relativist, you see. I actually do believe that some things in art are utter rubbish - fraudulent, even - and some things are sublime genius. And I believe that it's right and just to say so. If only in fairness to those who have worked hard to create their art.

Dahlhaus would be a good place to start (but you might struggle with the long words !)

I'll take your recommendation seriously. Thank you.

[MrGongGong]

I think loosing the conspiracy theory would be a good thing Simon
I know it goes against the kipper grain but it really would make life a lot less confrontational

[Simon]

I think loosing the conspiracy theory would be a good thing Simon

You've lost me there, old chap!

[MrGongGong]

You've lost me there, old chap!

"There is no spoon"

There is no conspiracy

Cage was right, get over it

[Lateralthinking1]

A further point. I think that by far and away the most interesting aspect of Lord Reith in the context of FoR3 is his opposition to segmenting audiences by splitting programming genres across different networks. FoR3 and the BBC might argue that 'Breakfast on 3' and pop music documentaries on R4 are modern approaches. Those in charge today are actually Reithian in that sense. By contrast, FoR3 appears to favour the BBC of the immediate post-war period which commenced in 1946 with the Third Programme.

This, I think, is where accusations of elitism become absurd. Ellen Wilkinson* of all people - she had organised the Jarrow March - was close to the reforms. She spoke of creating a "third programme nation". What seems to have happened is that critics made a connection between the earlier Reithian broadcasting style - presenters wearing dinner jackets - and the highbrow content of the new station. This became further emphasised in the 1950s when the BBC refused to provide a separate popular music service.

The connection though was misleading. Under Reith, conservative elements could pretend that class divisions didn't exist by mixing the content across BBC stations. That was particularly important for cohesion during the war. After the war, one could interpret the introduction by Labour of a Third Programme as a means of indicating the differences in class culture and then drawing the lower orders upwards. In a way, it foreshadowed the expansion in the 1960s of the universities. That is my take on it for what it is worth. Given the growing divisions in society, is it at all surprising that the blurring is roaring ahead again, just as in the 1920s?

[Bryn]

You've lost me there, old chap!

It really does not take much to do that, does it?

I take it that the conspiracy theory referred to is that which assumes composers such as Richard Barrett, Iannis Xenakis and Sir Harrison Birtwistle set out to tailor new clothes for some mythical emperor, rather than applying their very considerable musical acumen to composing works of cultural worth.

[Simon]

It really does not take much to do that, does it?

I take it that the conspiracy theory referred to is that which assumes composers such as Richard Barrett, Iannis Xenakis and Sir Harrison Birtwistle set out to tailor new clothes for some mythical emperor, rather than applying their very considerable musical acumen to composing works of cultural worth.

Ah well, that's not a conspiracy theory that I hold, so you must be wrong again.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed

If one wanted to perpetrate a "fraud" one wouldn't spend huge amounts of ones time writing a "fake" opera to "fool" the "gullible public" !
it's not as if Sir Harrison Birtwistle lives on a private island in the Seychelles with a helipad and shark tank for disposing of intruders !

[Bryn]

Ah well, that's not a conspiracy theory that I hold, so you must be wrong again.

It's one you express on these very boards (though in different words) within the past few hours.

[Resurrection Man]

By your standards, perhaps - and which, in many cases, I suspect amount in reality to no more than "what Simon likes".

Now, where's me shredder?...

And your opinion is better than Simon's? Surely opinions are precisely that. No need for the aggressive post.

[Bryn]

And your opinion is better than Simon's? Surely opinions are precisely that. No need for the aggressive post.

It is only our opinions and principles that can render us unhappy, and it is only the ignorant person that finds fault with another
After Epictetus

There you go, finding fault in others again.

[MrGongGong]

And your opinion is better than Simon's? Surely opinions are precisely that. No need for the aggressive post.

better ? your word matey

some confuse facts with opinions
or even make ridiculous statements and then "ignore" the responses , neither of which makes for effective communication

[Sydney Grew]

. . . is it at all surprising that the blurring is roaring ahead again, just as in the 1920s?

Pilger's is as good an explanation as any of the present lamentable state of affairs:

a) the "dumbing" of everything to an infantile level

b) the reduction and submission of every subject to a cloud of meaningless chatter and exclamation

c) the endless repeats of Ghershwn Copland and the like

d) the continuous depiction of slaughter and horror on the television, both "fictional" and real.

We British in 2012, once so superior, now know how it must have been to be an Indian in 1930 a Frenchperson in 1940 or a Czech in 1950. What it all is is the atmosphere of a colony and the B.B.C. is the tool.

[teamsaint]

Pilger's is as good an explanation as any of the present lamentable state of affairs:

a) the "dumbing" of everything to an infantile level

b) the reduction and submission of every subject to a cloud of meaningless chatter and exclamation

c) the endless repeats of Ghershwn Copland and the like

d) the continuous depiction of slaughter and horror on the television, both "fictional" and real.

We British in 2012, once so superior, now know how it must have been to be an Indian in 1930 a Frenchperson in 1940 or a Czech in 1950. What it all is is the atmosphere of a colony and the B.B.C. is the tool.

I agree, this seems to me to be acting as a de sensitising mechanism.
Amazing too, what you can get away with if you say it often enough. Saturday night i listened to 606, the football phone in show on 5live from about 7.00 to about 7.20. The show played endless jingles about how "Its your show" "your chance to have a say" etc. The 2 presenters did the same repeatedly. in 20 minutes they took 2 calls. Its not as if those calls were even on very deep footy stuff, just about how bad Villa are, or whatever. That doesn't take 10 minutes per call to cover, really !!