Things we didn't know about the B.B.C.

[AuntDaisy]

R3 broadcast a drama 'The Reith Affair' some years back. And I think it was Sir William Haley (Bill to his friends) who championed the Third Programme. Was it Reith who considered it 'elitist'? I'm trying to remember what was said in The Envy of the World - long time, no read.

Not sure if this the correct quote... seems a little late (but it is the first "elitist" mention).
Page 255 of Humphrey Carpenter's "The Envy of the World". [Fair use of short extract].

The BBC's official response, on receiving this document, was to invite leaders of the Campaign for Better Broadcasting to come and hear the Corporation's case. Unofficially, tempers were rising at Broadcasting House. Ian Trethowan, now Managing Director, Radio, wrote a draft reply which dismissed the kind of broadcasting valued by the Campaign - that is, the old Third Programme - as 'a private playground for elitists to indulge in cerebral masturbation'.

[french frank]

Not sure if this the correct quote... seems a little late (but it is the first "elitist" mention).
Page 255 of Humphrey Carpenter's "The Envy of the World". [Fair use of short extract].

Don't think that's the quote. I'll see if I can track it down. The BBC website had some stuff about the launch of the Third. Dunno where to find it now. About the BBC? History?

[AuntDaisy]

Don't think that's the quote. I'll see if I can track it down. The BBC website had some stuff about the launch of the Third. Dunno where to find it now. About the BBC? History?

How about page 110?

The Beveridge Committee's report, published in January 1951, paid almost no attention to the Third...
... Among witnesses called by the Committee was Lord Reith, who as well as giving oral evidence, submitted a written memorandum which included these sentences: 'The Third Programme, positively and negatively, is objectionable. It is a waste of a precious wavelength; much of its matter is too limited in appeal; the rest should have a wider audience. Its existence is taken to condone the absence of policy elsewhere; it is an easy way out.'

or page 3?

Haley was not exaggerating his part in the creation of the Third....
... The separation of highbrow material from general programming was not, however, an idea that appealed to Sir John Reith....

[french frank]

This on Sir William Haley:

"He established the BBC's role after the war including the new Home, Light and Third Programmes. Haley was especially proud of the Third Programme ..." More to follow. Possibly.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This is the whole Reith quote with the famous “sop “ reference

“The Third Programme, positively and negatively, is objectionable. It is a waste of a precious wavelength; much of its matter is too limited in appeal; the rest should have a wider audience. When overall programme policy and control was abandoned, the Third Programme was a sop to moral conscience, a sort of safety valve. Odd that this vital issue has been ignored.”

Extracted from this article which gives a ref . The Painted Kipper title becomes relevant as you read on . Perhaps we should start a Painted Kipper thread .

https://scholarsandrogues.com/2011/02/23/the-painted-kipper-reith-the-bbc-facing-modernity-pt-1/

[french frank]

Here we are, page 110:

"Among witnesses called by the Committee was Lord Reith, who as well as giving oral evidence, submitted a written memorandum which included these sentences: 'The Third Programme, positively and negatively, is objectionable [] It is a waste of a precious wavelength; much of its matter is too limited in appeal; the rest should have a wider audience. Its existence is taken to condone the absence of policy elsewhere; it is an easy way out.'

Beveridge report, Jan 1951.

Hmm...

Damn. Helders got in first!!

[eighthobstruction]

I was also going to intervene in a Music Thread and ask how many 78's folk still played but .........I was thinking in the 1930's the 33 rpm vinyl disc had not been invented which was has to be taken into account....when considering any question as to what folk were listening to....

....and yes I saw reference to the painted kipper back along on this thread somewhere....

....invention of 33rpm vinyl disc 1948 i think...

[Ein Heldenleben]

Here we are, page 110:

"Among witnesses called by the Committee was Lord Reith, who as well as giving oral evidence, submitted a written memorandum which included these sentences: 'The Third Programme, positively and negatively, is objectionable [] It is a waste of a precious wavelength; much of its matter is too limited in appeal; the rest should have a wider audience. Its existence is taken to condone the absence of policy elsewhere; it is an easy way out.'

Beveridge report, Jan 1951.

Hmm...

Interesting that there’s a discrepancy between quotes. Wonder if he said “sop etc “ in committee than withdrew it in the written submission ?

[french frank]

Interesting that there’s a discrepancy between quotes. Wonder if he said “sop etc “ in committee than withdrew it in the written submission ?

Could be. All in all, I think it can be taken that he didn't approve of the Third, Haley's pride and joy.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Here we are, page 110:

"Among witnesses called by the Committee was Lord Reith, who as well as giving oral evidence, submitted a written memorandum which included these sentences: 'The Third Programme, positively and negatively, is objectionable [] It is a waste of a precious wavelength; much of its matter is too limited in appeal; the rest should have a wider audience. Its existence is taken to condone the absence of policy elsewhere; it is an easy way out.'

Beveridge report, Jan 1951.

Hmm...

Damn. Helders got in first!!

Only because I’ve pretty much idle all day apart from some piano practice , some reading , some walking and I’ve got the builders in.

[hmvman]

I was also going to intervene in a Music Thread and ask how many 78's folk still played but .........I was thinking in the 1930's the 33 rpm vinyl disc had not been invented which was has to be taken into account....when considering any question as to what folk were listening to....

....and yes I saw reference to the painted kipper back along on this thread somewhere....

....invention of 33rpm vinyl disc 1948 i think...

RCA introduced a 33.33rpm LP record on a kind of vinyl material in 1931 but it didn't last long. Yes, the LP as we know it, developed by Columbia appeared in 1948. [anorak off...]

http://vinyl-record.co.uk/Pages/VinylRecordHistory.htm

[smittims]

33 1/3 was used for laquer transcription discs made by radio companies, often of 16" diameter. A lot of Toscanini broadcasts emeante from that source. So it was already in existence before commercial 12" LPs were mooted.

I don't know the origin of 45rpm but RCA planned to issue all their post 78 material on 7" 45rpm on the basis that most of it was popular short duration music and they were afraid the public would not want to buy a whole 12" Lp at once. In retrospect this seems an absurd decision, and they were soon persuaded of the advantages of the 12" 33 format, althought they continued issuing classical works on 7" 45 for some years, as did their British associate EMI. As late as the 1970s you could buy highlights 45s of extracts from 12" Lps, e.g. Sibelius Pelleas and Melisande (Beecham) and two 'Planets' at a time.