A Radio Four Sub-Forum?

[kernelbogey]

I made the suggestion, en passant, on another thread that we might start a Radio Four sub-forum.

Members occasionally flag up interesting items 'over' on Radio Four. There are reports of defectors from 'Breakfast' listening to Today in the morning in preference. Occasionally there are interesting programmes on music there.

I'm not proposing that the Forum should have a wholesale enlargement to cover R4 to the same extent that R3 and serious music in general are covered here, but rather a a home for posts flagging up interesting Radio Four programmes, and where more general issues about the BBC's profile as a radio broadcaster might be aired.

I have had my radios tuned more or less permanently to Radio Three for decades and think of myself as 'A Radio Three listener' in broadcasting terms. But with increasing leisure time and a decreasing interest in the morning broadcasts on Three, I also would like a guide around what feels sometimes like a foreign country.

What do others think?

[Thropplenoggin]

Seconded. There is enough cross-over to warrant this. I'm minded of the recent programme 'Soul Music' on various people's experience of Dvorak's 9th Symphony - a prisoner, a music teacher, etc. Very moving it was, too.

[DracoM]

Well, instead of 'Breakfast' I listen to WQXR New York. e.g. as I write Mozart's Gran Partita is rolling. Yes, it's 3.30 a.m. in NYC, but that means that for them it is a sort of TTN. Yes you get ads every so often, but not the blizzard of bullyings to bleep and tweet and text and email and giggle along with whichever witless nobody is presenting.

[french frank]

I made the suggestion, en passant, on another thread that we might start a Radio Four sub-forum.

Technically, R4 programmes can be discussed - in new threads - on the R3 Arts forum which is for 'R3-type' arts programmes whether on R3 or elsewhere. But I could add a sub-forum to that (like A Night at the Opera) which will be permanently on view. R4 Dramas, for example, could be discussed there.

But would R4 music programmes then get put there too, under Arts, rather than under a music forum? At the moment, R4 music can be discussed under Talking About Music which doesn't have to be R3 specific.

The idea, I assume, would be to flag up any R4 programme which might be of interest: music, drama, culture, general arts - all topics which are already catered for separately on different boards here.

[Lateralthinking1]

I don't think I have ever expressed an opinion on this question. As someone who listens to a large number of stations, including R4, R4E and the World Service, it has regularly crossed my mind. At the same time, I have accepted that this forum is - and should be - unequivocally focussed on R3. While it is distinct from FoR3 - contributors' views are their own and broader in range than those held by FoR3 - I am sure many would feel that the core messages could easily be diluted by highlighting other stations.

It is regrettable - and surprising - that there isn't an effective forum for R4 to complement this one. It is probably true that many people listen to R3 and R4. There are also obvious links between the two - arguably both are the reason for having public broadcasting and there are similar concerns about standards. While many rightly feel strongly about the direction of R3 in its own right, I have always viewed FoR3 and the forum as being in a position to lead on standards for all essential aspects of BBC radio.

I am struck by the way in which the forum categories already have the flexibility to incorporate non-R3 content. There are long-running threads on drama and poetry as well as countryside/gardening/food matters which are able to incorporate aspects of R4. There are threads on music that doesn't necessarily fit into the categories of classical, jazz or world music (R1/R2/R6M) and other threads on football and news (R5L and R4). Some threads on drama and art even reach out to television - BBC4 and Sky Arts.

Where I think there is a big gap - and I have always had the feeling that this would be a contentious issue - is in the area of comedy, quizzes etc. I would welcome a sub-forum but have a feeling that some would consider this to be dumbing down. It really depends though on how such things are perceived. For example, I am very keen on 'Round Britain Quiz', a programme that is anything but trivial, and I also believe that some of the classic comedy series on R4E are superbly written pieces of drama.

On that latter point, I think the argument I would put forward is "everything in its place". It seems to me highly inappropriate for quizzes to be included in the middle of a classical music programme. The same, though, is true of the latest football result from Wolverhampton or a recipe for steak and kidney pie. New sub-forums provide access to a wider range of topics but, if correct in design, they also provide suitable boundaries. "Serious" comedy and/or quizzes could also be an antidote to political upset/heat.

[Curalach]

I agree with ff. The present arrangement where members can flag up items of interest on R4, or any other station or channel, seem to me to work perfectly well.

[Russ]

I can't see the need for a Radio 4 subforum personally, even with it being my 'default station'. Such programmes on R4 that are discussed here tend to have a good or at least reasonable fit somewhere in our current 'subject matter' structure, and a motion to a 'where that subject matter is transmitted' structure could I think be counterproductive or confusing. My guess is that most forum members will tend to read threads, usually from the What's New listing, on the basis of their subject matter rather than the particular medium it's transmitted on. News and current affairs threads abound in Platform 3 for example, and dramas and arts progs have a natural home in the Arts and Ideas sections. As Lat says, our current structure does remarkably well at accommodating non-R3 content, and ff has always been sufficiently on the ball in introducing sensible subdivisions here like the Techie section.

For 'other places', there is a forum for R4 (www.s4.zetaboards.com/radio4forum) but, like its forerunner BBC messageboards, tends to be dominated by current affairs and word games. The excellent http://beebotron.org/phorum/ covers R4extra, but the number of its stalwart contributors is very small. Neither is a shadow of the former BBC incarnations, and both suffer from a level of membership below a critical level necessary to make any forum thrive. Such was the inevitable fallout of the BBC messageboard closures. (The only BBC areas left are the still-thriving and wide-ranging Mustardland and the TV-centric POV.)

I think Lat makes a very good point in looking to FoR3 and the forum as a natural place to "lead on standards for all essential aspects of BBC radio", if only for the track record here, but that is beyond the proper scope of this thread.

Russ

[eighthobstruction]

I think I agree generally with Russ and Lat....

[Simon]

I think there's merit in KB's suggestion, as there are often posts relating specifically to R4. But as others have noted, among other good points, there are suitable areas already for these topics.

So FWIW I shall sit firmly on the fence, hold the middle ground, see which way the wind blows and take a balanced approach.

[Angle]

But I could add a sub-forum to that (like A Night at the Opera) which will be permanently on view. R4 Dramas, for example, could be discussed there.£

yes, such as where is the entertainment-value in much that constitutes radio drama these days.

MY PREVIOUS post quoted from the wrong message. Sorry.

[french frank]

yes, such as where is the entertainment-value in much that constitutes radio drama these days.

MY PREVIOUS post quoted from the wrong message. Sorry.

[I've deleted the previous one]

I think such a discussion could be discussed on the Radio 3 Arts board already. It doesn't really matter if the discussion ranges over R3 and R4. Do I detect a certain negative implication behind the way you express the comment?