Antibiotics

[Petrushka]

Doctors also prescribe antibiotics wrongly. They have the control.

My own GP's surgery practise has big notices up on the wall about this issue but surely a GP doesn't prescribe medicine just because the patient says so do they? Or am I living in the past? In any case, I've known about the (to me, self-evident) dangers of over-prescribing anti-biotics (or any other medicine) for many years.

[Bryn]

To start with I will make it quite clear that the following refers to my experiences in the mid-'70s, not recently. I used to suffer regular annual occurrences of sinusitis. Each time I consulted a GP (not always the same one) and was, without any prompting on my part, prescribed antibiotics. After learning that the infection was unlikely to be of a bacterial causation, the next time I experienced it I decided to put up with it, using steam inhalation to ease the symptoms somewhat and see if my immune system would eventually kick in and remedy the situation. After a couple of weeks the symptoms abated and the next year I only suffered a much milder bout. Later still the problem was sorted (apparently permanently) via an RTA in which my sinuses got pretty much smashed up. The phrase "silver lining" springs to mind.

So, while patient education seems to be the order of the day, in my experience the initial inappropriate/over-use of antibiotics was very much down to the medical profession, than the patient. Antibiotics used appropriately are too precious a tool to be used willy-nilly. Thankfully most members of the medical profession now recognise that. I do hope that when refusing to prescribe antibiotics where they are not of use, doctors make a point of explaining why, including the potential negative consequences of their inappropriate use.

At to Simon's style of participation in this forum, probably to try and adopt an approach of "blame not the speaker but be warned by his words" in this case. Otherwise, just treat his contributions with as much disdain as they might deserve. Remember, he never makes personal attacks on other contributors, except when he does.

[EdgeleyRob]

Thanks sal I'll check in to the musical threads from time to time. Steer clear of controversy!

Just stick to music and football threads,what else matters ?

[Frances_iom]

Pabmusic..I am sure that your point re evolution and putting antibiotics in animal feed will have some effect although my own personal viewpoint is that this is probably minimal.

I strongly suspect you are very mistaken - antibiotic fed meat reaches probably 95% of population (I havn't touched meat for well over 20yrs but know I'm not usual in this regard) - look to see where the E-coli infections break out (nearly always from infected meat) - the cheaper the meat the more shortcuts taken in the care of the animals pre slaughter - the USA has permitted levels of antibiotics, hormones etc way beyond those allowed for in the EU.
But trying to teach evolution to most Americans is impossible.

[Pabmusic]

Pabmusic..I am sure that your point re evolution and putting antibiotics in animal feed will have some effect although my own personal viewpoint is that this is probably minimal. To my mind, this is the key reason as eloquently pointed out by Richardfinegould...

You wouldn't believe how many patients want antbiotics for what are clearly viral infections. They won't be happy unless they get them, and if I don't prescribe them will go to an urgent care center or an emergency room.

And to compound matters, the same idiot patients that demand the antibiotics despite being told that they will have absolutely no effect on a viral infection like a common cold then stop taking them for the full course of treatment when they are prescribed antibiotics for some bacterial infection for which they were designed.

I keep coming back to the film Idiocracy which I found deeply unsettling and profoundly depressing.

Oh yes, I quite agree with you, but a wider understanding of the science behind it - namely that increased use of antibiotics allows more opportunities for random mutations (i.e.: resistance) to develop - might help.

[Pabmusic]

...the USA has permitted levels of antibiotics, hormones etc way beyond those allowed for in the EU.
But trying to teach evolution to most Americans is impossible.

[MrGongGong]

Antibiotics would have been entirely beyond the point, but two weeks ago I came close to at the least a very serious illness indeed. I'm still weak but a corner has been turned . Many thanks in part though not completely (she's not a miracle worker) to my GP.

I'm sorry, Simon, but any serious point you make is vitiated by remarks like -

My current GP - who is kind-natured but for whose diagnostic and prescriptive abilities, I, along with many others, don't have much time

- your current GP can't, of course, answer back. It's that insidious nastiness, embodied in your sentence, that will end my participation on these boards.

There is a problem with this as has been widely publicised,,,,,,,,,, but I was wondering how Simon knows what the GP has been prescribing to others ?
I think its part of his covert "work" that he is able to collect all this data from the locals , though by revealing it here has somewhat blown wouldn't you say ? (I guess he'll be in for a trip to Vauxhall soon )
I was wondering whether he hacked into the GP's computer or (more likely) abseiled off the roof in a skin tight black suit to jemmy open the window.

Simon is incapable of saying anything without slipping an offensive aside into it, Christmas must be a very miserable time round there , what with the local's all tugging their forelocks and whining on about how wonderful mr Eden is .........

[John Shelton]

Just stick to music and football threads,what else matters ?

[Lateralthinking1]

I strongly suspect you are very mistaken - antibiotic fed meat reaches probably 95% of population (I havn't touched meat for well over 20yrs but know I'm not usual in this regard) - look to see where the E-coli infections break out (nearly always from infected meat) - the cheaper the meat the more shortcuts taken in the care of the animals pre slaughter - the USA has permitted levels of antibiotics, hormones etc way beyond those allowed for in the EU.
But trying to teach evolution to most Americans is impossible.

The OP mentions a subject that should be of concern to all. My GP is not forthcoming with antibiotics, nor are many other young ones. But while every little adaptation helps, addressing this problem by reducing prescriptions is like placing a tip on a melting iceberg. Soil samples taken here in places isolated from humans and even livestock show complex strains of antibiotic resistance. In other words, there doesn't even need to have been any contact for reproduction of these problems to occur in nature. They are occurring now. And you should always wear gardening gloves, knowing that much of the damage has already been done.

[Thropplenoggin]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20354536

Despite our differences over so many things, I think that we might as a group be able to have some small impact in society as regards those things we all believe to be right.

The subject covered by the brief article above is, I'm sure, one such. If we all refuse antibiotics unless we really need them, and if we all explain to two other people at some point during, say, the next year, how dangerous it is not to complete courses and also to take them unnecssarily, then maybe it will have a tiny impact.

My current GP - who is kind-natured but for whose diagnostic and prescriptive abilities, I, along with many others, don't have much time - is a big fan of giving them out like sweets, and on at least two occasions over the past 10 years I've managed to recover from things well enough without them, despite her urging. I was happy to take them when I got a bad infection in my arm that wasn't clearing up, though, which from my own reading around the subject I think is fair enough.

Don't forget, also, that many non-organic and/or factory farmed items, especially cheap poultry and eggs, contain traces of antibiotics, which can build up over the years in one's system. (Avoid factory poultry if you can anyway, for all kinds of reasons.)

One depressing aspect of this board is the knee-jerk response people seem to have to anything Simon writes. I am new(ish) and so, perhaps, am not au fait with what may be construed as 'flaming' or 'trolling' behaviour. The part of Simon's post I have highlighted is one that would seem most suspect - how can he claim to know that many people feel this way?

However, it seems that people automatically assume that this is his intent on every occasion. It's a wonder he ever bothers to post at all. Then the usual suspects all gang up on him, slap each other on the back ("" et al), and shout him down with the sort of en masse mockery that could easily be construed as its own form of bullying. It becomes a rather banal sort of sport repeated ad infinitum.

I recall seeing something in my canteen at primary school and then it really was bullying.

[Resurrection Man]

One depressing aspect of this board is the knee-jerk response people seem to have to anything Simon writes. I am new(ish) and so, perhaps, am not au fait with what may be construed as 'flaming' or 'trolling' behaviour. The part of Simon's post I have highlighted is one that would seem most suspect - how can he claim to know that many people feel this way?

However, it seems that people automatically assume that this is his intent on every occasion. It's a wonder he ever bothers to post at all. Then the usual suspects all gang up on him, slap each other on the back ("" et al), and shout him down with the sort of en masse mockery that could easily be construed as its own form of bullying. It becomes a rather banal sort of sport repeated ad infinitum.

I recall seeing something in my canteen at primary school and then it really was bullying.

Well said, Thropplenoggin. The knee-jerk responses are incessant and mind-numbingly puerile. However, I have now found a very simple solution which is to stick the Gang of Four on Ignore. That way I can remain in blissful ignorance of their actions and enjoy the forum.

[french frank]

The number of combatants on each side of the conflict might be considered simply to indicate the general balance of views on the forum: 5% right, 15% left, 80% didn't vote.

Count the number of threads which Simon has started which are either broadly anti-left or anti EU (not to mention the casual interjections) and you'll see why he antagonises people. I'm afraid they do then tend to shoot regardless of what he's discussing.

[Petrushka]

One depressing aspect of this board is the knee-jerk response people seem to have to anything Simon writes. I am new(ish) and so, perhaps, am not au fait with what may be construed as 'flaming' or 'trolling' behaviour. The part of Simon's post I have highlighted is one that would seem most suspect - how can he claim to know that many people feel this way?

However, it seems that people automatically assume that this is his intent on every occasion. It's a wonder he ever bothers to post at all. Then the usual suspects all gang up on him, slap each other on the back ("" et al), and shout him down with the sort of en masse mockery that could easily be construed as its own form of bullying. It becomes a rather banal sort of sport repeated ad infinitum.

I recall seeing something in my canteen at primary school and then it really was bullying.

[Bryn]

One depressing aspect of this board is the knee-jerk response people seem to have to anything Simon writes. I am new(ish) and so, perhaps, am not au fait with what may be construed as 'flaming' or 'trolling' behaviour. The part of Simon's post I have highlighted is one that would seem most suspect - how can he claim to know that many people feel this way?

However, it seems that people automatically assume that this is his intent on every occasion. It's a wonder he ever bothers to post at all. Then the usual suspects all gang up on him, slap each other on the back ("" et al), and shout him down with the sort of en masse mockery that could easily be construed as its own form of bullying. It becomes a rather banal sort of sport repeated ad infinitum.

I recall seeing something in my canteen at primary school and then it really was bullying.

What you refer to a knee-jerk reactions are more like conditioned, rather than autonomic, reflexes. Many here have encountered Simon's style over many years, from messages where he has acted as apologist for neo-nazis to assertions that the works of Beethoven's last decade were those of a madman. When his messages are rightly repudiated, he throws his toys out of the pram. He fits a description popular in the Chinese English language press of the '70s of "a thief running about shouting 'stop thief'. The banal sort of sport here is not so much the responses to Simon's 'contributions' as those very 'contributions' themselves.

Bear in mind that we only have Simon's word for it that he has ever ventured into rural domains, or indeed holds any of the views he tosses around here. The various noms de plume he has used here and on other boards give quite a clue to his intent. The S-S, for instance, used to be "Simon Says".

[Thropplenoggin]

What you refer to a knee-jerk reactions are more like conditioned, rather than autonomic, reflexes. Many here have encountered Simon's style over many years, from messages where he has acted as apologist for neo-nazis to assertions that the works of Beethoven's last decade were those of a madman. When his messages are rightly repudiated, he throws his toys out of the pram. He fits a description popular in the Chinese English language press of the '70s of "a thief running about shouting 'stop thief'. The banal sort of sport here is not so much the responses to Simon's 'contributions' as those very 'contributions' themselves.

Bear in mind that we only have Simon's word for it that he has ever ventured into rural domains, or indeed holds any of the views he tosses around here. The various noms de plume he has used here and on other boards give quite a clue to his intent. The S-S, for instance, uses to be "Simon Says".

I value your consistency, Bryn, in all matters, both musical and otherwise. Though I would wager you are one of the least inclined to leap in with puerile repudiations and ganging up, but offer a more considered riposte.

Anyway, thank you for your post, which has given me an inkling of things I would otherwise have been ignorant of. It does sound like aberrant and wilfully contentious behaviour.