McAlpine, Newsnight and All That ...

[Petrushka]

Been steering well clear of this (good) discussion for reasons best not mentioned, but if you resign yourself to the end of the BBC, at least give us a view of what (independent, principled, unbiased) news analysis outlet would take its place. Newsnight (or an equivalent) can rise from the ashes of its (allegedly) damaged current reputation - a (very partial) destruction brought about largely by its media competitors and political opponents.

Impossible to regulate the internet, but those who make libellous statements upon, or who own and profit from Twitter etc. are never seen owning up to any responsibility are they? I'd like to see some of THEM... interviewed on Newsnight - or even New Newsnight.

Oh and, if you look forward to the break-up of the BBC, who would you choose to sponsor the Proms (complete with looped commercials...)?

Jayne, I most certainly do NOT look forward to the break-up of the BBC but the clamour for exactly this will probably be unstoppable, if not now, then at the next crisis. The reality of the situation is that the Newsnight broadcast did just enough for anyone else to be able to join the dots without actually naming names themselves thus leaving the twits on Twitter to supply the detail. Did BBC lawyers advise this tactic knowing full well it would happen? If an internet ignoramus like me can come up with the correct name in a matter of minutes then so could anyone.

Lord McAlpine intends to sue 'all media' which surely includes anyone who published his name in connection with the abuse scandal in any printed form.

[Nick Armstrong]

Ok, Its in the mail, but looks good enough to stand up in court as "Hanging out"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227941/Jimmy-Savile-advised-Prince-Charles-appointment-royal-aide.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I wouldn't be a bit surprised (in the light of my dealings with The Daily Mail) if that article was almost entirely invented on the basis of one or two tenuous little wisps of fact.

Well, you have to feel sorry for the Beeb

I also confess to feeling sorry for Mr Entwhistle. Talk about a baptism of fire. Yes he hasn't covered himself in glory, a.k.a. was utterly unable to deal convincingly with the tidal wave that hit him. I guess he would have been ok under normal circumstances, and might have grown into the rôle...

I wonder if anyone, in their first few weeks of an appointment, would have been able to cope much better with the nightmare conspiracy of circumstance and ineptitude which confronted him.

His name should become synonymous for having to deal with the worst possible combination of factors: "Having a total Entwhistle" = having a complete shocker &c.

It's already in the Dictionarium Calibanum

[teamsaint]

No doubt the Mail article is ...well...making the most of it...but there is plenty of stuff out there on Charles and saville...People with an inside track surely knew what saville was like....why on earth would anybody with a high public profile have wanted to be associated with him.
Perhaps there wasn't much in it.....not convinced though.

[Nick Armstrong]

Lord McAlpine intends to sue 'all media'

Good luck with that...

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, you have to feel sorry for the Beeb

Yes.

If mother BBC becomes understandably hysterical about men who have attacked her children, and in that hysteria she criticises the wrong men, there is no question that she might have acted more rationally.

However, it is also rational to consider the character of any organisation or individual which/who responds by beating her with a big stick. It seems to me that there are more appropriate and winning responses.

[Petrushka]

Good luck with that...

Well, yes, but is it not possible in the case of the internet to sue a few of the more lurid sites in the hope and belief that the others will get taken down? The one where I found the information was quite dreadful. Can Twitter be sued as an organisation? I assume it is one.

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, yes, but is it not possible in the case of the internet to sue a few of the more lurid sites in the hope and belief that the others will get taken down? The one where I found the information was quite dreadful. Can Twitter be sued as an organisation? I assume it is one.

That to me is the principal difference. Many websites are malevolent gossip in the streets. The BBC is married to the Government.

The "husband" Government should be expected to see that there was essentially a muddle arising from hysteria. Any citizen who has very unfortunately been implicated might also be expected to display sufficient maturity to accept it. And if not, why not?

[Nick Armstrong]

Well, yes, but is it not possible in the case of the internet to sue a few of the more lurid sites in the hope and belief that the others will get taken down? The one where I found the information was quite dreadful. Can Twitter be sued as an organisation? I assume it is one.

It's a Californian-based company, and (quite apart from the difficult question of enforcing English libel judgments in the US as a result of the primacy given to freedom of speech in US defamation law), in addition it is not regarded in law as the publisher of a libel - it just provides the means (in the same way, you wouldn't be able to sue BT over slanderous remarks made in a telephone call using their network).

You can certainly sue certain individual users of Twitter - publishing a libellous 'Tweet' is no different in principle to publishing a pamphlet with the libel written on it, or daubing it on a wall. There are practical difficulties, due to the anonymity of users who will often have pseudonyms - but they are not insurmountable (though it is costly and can take extra weeks or months). Twitter is prepared to honour an English court order compelling it to release the identity details of specific users who have used its services to commit an actionable wrong.

A similar argument would apply to blogs - e.g. many are hosted on the "Blogger" network which is owned by Google - again based in California (though they do have a London presence).

[mercia]

seems to me that the apparent "need" for Mr Entwistle to go has hung on his title of Editor-in-Chief [which seemed to require him to know what all his staff were doing at any given moment] as well as DG - should that be a separate role undertaken by a second bod ?

can't see how anyone would actually want to be DG - it's obviously the job from hell. I guess the Humphrys interview was the clincher

[eighthobstruction]

I think Entwistle IMO has added to his folly by this hasty resignation ,leaving the BBC in the lurch, precariously hanging out of control . For Tim Davie of all people to be now hopefully only temporarily in charge, is still 5 minutes too long for such an inexperienced 'light weight', it just shows the poverty of the situation ref BBCs present management chain. Someone of substance needs to be brought in temporarily (even if brought out of retirement). Mark Byford, Gregg Dyke, or even Jenny Abramski (she of the fabulous BBC pension). It needs to be someone with media experience, perhaps an ex newspaper editor. I am so disappointed with Entwhistle, he should of toughed it out , or worked out a situation where he stayed in place for a few more weeks . Patten must stay....it is absolutely the wrong time for him to resign OR be asked to resign. The new DG needs to be someone who is at least robust (whatever Mark Thompson was, he was at least robust)....it is ridiculous that someone as frail as GE rose to DG status.

It is interesting about the usual top presenters of Newsnight refusing to present Fridays Newsnight where the apology was broadcast....and Eddie Mair being rushed in to do it....what is going on there?

I love the BBC, it is one of my bestfriends and must be saved....it is a jewel.

Ed: Perhaps a new branding after changes New BBC, New Newsnight. Perhaps a change from Ariel (not Pegasus, he lost his rider on the way to Olympus) the Pheonix probably too hopeful....

[amateur51]

I think Entwistle IMO has added to his folly by this hasty resignation ,leaving the BBC in the lurch, precariously hanging out of control . For Tim Davie of all people to be now hopefully only temporarily in charge, is still 5 minutes too long for such an inexperienced 'light weight', it just shows the poverty of the situation ref BBCs present management. Someone of substance needs to be brought in temporarily (even if brought out of retirement). Mark Byford, Gregg Dyke, or even Jenny Abramski (she of the fabulous BBC pension). It needs to be someone with media experience, perhaps an ex newspaper editor. I am so disappointed with Entwhistle, he should of toughed it out , or worked out a situation where he stayed in place for a few more weeks . Patten must stay....it is absolutely the wrong time for him to resign OR be asked to resign. The new DG needs to be someone who is at least robust (whatever Mark Thompson was, he was at least robust)....it is ridiculous that someone as frail as GE rose to DG status.

It is interesting about the usual top presenters of Newsnight refusing to present Fridays Newsnight where the apology was broadcast....and Eddie Mair being rushed in to do it....what is going on there?

I love the BBC, it is one of my bestfriends and must be saved....it is a jewel.

[amateur51]

It's a Californian-based company, and (quite apart from the difficult question of enforcing English libel judgments in the US as a result of the primacy given to freedom of speech in US defamation law), in addition it is not regarded in law as the publisher of a libel - it just provides the means (in the same way, you wouldn't be able to sue BT over slanderous remarks made in a telephone call using their network).

You can certainly sue certain individual users of Twitter - publishing a libellous 'Tweet' is no different in principle to publishing a pamphlet with the libel written on it, or daubing it on a wall. There are practical difficulties, due to the anonymity of users who will often have pseudonyms - but they are not insurmountable (though it is costly and can take extra weeks or months). Twitter is prepared to honour an English court order compelling it to release the identity details of specific users who have used its services to commit an actionable wrong.

A similar argument would apply to blogs - e.g. many are hosted on the "Blogger" network which is owned by Google - again based in California (though they do have a London presence).

Many thanks, Rumpole - that's cleared up lots of thoughts

[amateur51]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised (in the light of my dealings with The Daily Mail) if that article was almost entirely invented on the basis of one or two tenuous little wisps of fact.




I also confess to feeling sorry for Mr Entwhistle. Talk about a baptism of fire. Yes he hasn't covered himself in glory, a.k.a. was utterly unable to deal convincingly with the tidal wave that hit him. I guess he would have been ok under normal circumstances, and might have grown into the rôle...

I wonder if anyone, in their first few weeks of an appointment, would have been able to cope much better with the nightmare conspiracy of circumstance and ineptitude which confronted him.

His name should become synonymous for having to deal with the worst possible combination of factors: "Having a total Entwhistle" = having a complete shocker &c.

It's already in the Dictionarium Calibanum

Poor bloke. A classic example of the wrong bloke in the wrong place at the wrong time. I thought Patten had a safe pair of hands

[amateur51]

Marksist BBC?

[Nick Armstrong]

It is interesting about the usual top presenters of Newsnight refusing to present Fridays Newsnight where the apology was broadcast....and Eddie Mair being rushed in to do it....what is going on there?

I love the BBC, it is one of my bestfriends and must be saved....it is a jewel.

Agreed...

It felt like Mair was dumped on, my comment about that was guess-work though. Have you seen it confirmed elsewhere that Paxo et al. ran for the hills?

For all I know Eddie M had been scheduled to do Friday's show for weeks, and just got the short straw as things turned out...