McAlpine, Newsnight and All That ...

[DracoM]

Am I being exceptionally dim here?

I watched the interview, but to the best of my awareness, the Newsnight interview did NOT name or implicate anybody by name at all. 'Senior Tory' covers an enormous field. I had absolutely no idea of names at all until the PRESS started both hinting and then indicating websites that named names. The interview alleged, it made some detailed statements, but names were not among the material. How is the Newsnight programme defamatory of someone 'un-named'???

Surely, the Newsnight interview only 'implicated' anybody to those who, ALREADY in the know, actually knew enough of the story from way back and thus some of the names in the frame. And the piece of paper handed to the PM on the ITV morning programme ALREADY had six names on it. I still have no idea what those names were or how ITV got hold of them.

It seems more and more to me as if a lot of people behind the scenes DID know these names / the events etc, and they are the ones who might / should be taking the rap. The actually Newsnight interview did not use names. I am NOT saying the abuse never happened, or that the abused man is inventing, or underplaying the awfulness of the whole filthy story, or any such thing.

Where am I going wrong here?

[Nick Armstrong]

Am I being exceptionally dim here?

I watched the interview, but to the best of my awareness, the Newsnight interview did NOT name or implicate anybody by name at all. 'Senior Tory' covers an enormous field. I had absolutely no idea of names at all until the PRESS started both hinting and then indicating websites that named names. The interview alleged, it made some detailed statements, but names were not among the material. How is the Newsnight programme defamatory of someone 'un-named'???

Surely, the Newsnight interview only 'implicated' anybody to those who, ALREADY in the know, actually knew enough of the story from way back and thus some of the names in the frame. And the piece of paper handed to the PM on the ITV morning programme ALREADY had six names on it. I still have no idea what those names were or how ITV got hold of them.

It seems more and more to me as if a lot of people behind the scenes DID know these names / the events etc, and they are the ones who might / should be taking the rap. The actually Newsnight interview did not use names. I am NOT saying the abuse never happened, or that the abused man is inventing, or underplaying the awfulness of the whole filthy story, or any such thing.

Where am I going wrong here?

Draco, because issues of this sort are what I do for a living, I've written an article today. As it may be published, I don't want it showing up on google via these posts... But I'll PM you a draft, I think it explains things in part at least

[Anna]

What, in my mind, is even worse, is that on ITV Phillip Schofield offered David Cameron a list of, suspected senior Tory blokes who would have abused, etc., etc., which he'd cribbed off the Internet. and Dave accepted the piece of paper (not before some cameraman got a swift angle at the names), then Dave said, something along the lines, 'this could result in a Gay witch hunt'
Erh? Being homosexual does not automatically make you a paedophile, but Dave, with his size 12s, has muddied the mire.

[Nick Armstrong]

What, in my mind, is even worse, is that on ITV Phillip Schofield offered David Cameron a list of, suspected senior Tory blokes who would have abused, etc., etc., which he'd cribbed off the Internet. and Dave accepted the piece of paper (not before some cameraman got a swift angle at the names), then Dave said, something along the lines, 'this could result in a Gay witch hunt'
Erh? Being homosexual does not automatically make you a paedophile, but Dave, with his size 12s, has muddied the mire.

True.

Marcus Brigstocke parodied this cleverly yesterday, saying... "I tell you something, I'd be absolutely furious today if I was a gay witch..."

[Anna]

True. Marcus Brigstocke parodied this cleverly yesterday, saying... "I tell you something, I'd be absolutely furious today if I was a gay witch..."

Oh, Pooh and Nonsense! There is no way to win against you and Chancery and your way with words .... If you like that sort of stuff ...... My ambition is to be a Gay Witch and defeat Merlin....

[Serial_Apologist]

True.

Marcus Brigstocke parodied this cleverly yesterday, saying... "I tell you something, I'd be absolutely furious today if I was a gay witch..."

You a regular viewer too, Cals? Good, wasn't he, our Marcus

[Anna]

You a regular viewer too, Cals? Good, wasn't he, our Marcus

Blimey O'Reilly. These two watch The One Show!

[Nick Armstrong]

Oh, Pooh and Nonsense! There is no way to win against you and Chancery and your way with words .... If you like that sort of stuff ...... My ambition is to be a Gay Witch and defeat Merlin....

As it is, you are a wizard in the kitchen....

You a regular viewer too, Cals? Good, wasn't he, our Marcus

Not regular, but it was on as I prepared to leave for work yesterday after a late work night on Thursday, and that made me smile!

[Nick Armstrong]

Blimey O'Reilly. These two watch The One Show!

No! it was on the C5 morning show with Matthew Wright!

(Maybe he retailed the same gag later in the day?)

[Anna]

No! it was on the C5 morning show with Matthew Wright!

Excuses, excuses!! At show that doesn't start until 9:15 in the morning .........
Who's a lazy slug a bed then?

[Flosshilde]

What, in my mind, is even worse, is that on ITV Phillip Schofield offered David Cameron a list of, suspected senior Tory blokes who would have abused, etc., etc., which he'd cribbed off the Internet. and Dave accepted the piece of paper (not before some cameraman got a swift angle at the names), then Dave said, something along the lines, 'this could result in a Gay witch hunt'
Erh? Being homosexual does not automatically make you a paedophile, but Dave, with his size 12s, has muddied the mire.

True, but unfortunately a large section of the population - encouraged by certain religious types & some sections of the media - believes that there is a connection. I think that that was what Dave had in mind, to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Nick Armstrong]

Excuses, excuses!! At show that doesn't start until 9:15 in the morning .........
Who's a lazy slug a bed then?

She's merciless... merciless!!

[amateur51]

I don't think anyone has suggested that Mr Messham has completely invented the abuse allegations, only that there has been a misidentification of the abuser - a misidentification which he claims came about because the police showed him a photo of the alleged abuser but incorrectly told him that it was a photo of the peer.

Witch-hunts against alleged paedophiles in the media are certainly wrong, but it should not detract from the fact that there has been very widespread child abuse in many institutions particularly in the period between 1950 and 1980. The problem up to now has not been a mass of false allegations but a mass of genuine abuse without justice or compensation for the victims, as the Savile case shows.

Nice summation aeolium.Thanks too for confirming my suspicion about how Mr Messham's identification mistake arose.

How was it possible for that mistake to go uncorrected? Mr Messham must feel a complete fool and he has given a full apology to Lord McAlpine. There's a Wrexham police officer somewhere, probably long-retired now, who needs to be examining his conscience in my view.

[Flosshilde]

Nice summation aeolium.Thanks too for confirming my suspicion about how Mr Messham's identification mistake arose.

How was it possible for that mistake to go uncorrected? Mr Messham must feel a complete fool and he has given a full apology to Lord McAlpine. There's a Wrexham police officer somewhere, probably long-retired now, who needs to be examining his conscience in my view.

According to the reports I heard the man in the picture was a McAlpine, a member of the family, but didn't say how close. It also said that he is now dead.

[amateur51]

True.

Marcus Brigstocke parodied this cleverly yesterday, saying... "I tell you something, I'd be absolutely furious today if I was a gay witch..."