E-Bacc

[ardcarp]

And whilst they are doing that, could somebody please explain what the main difference is between them? [the baccalaureats]

The obvious difference is that the well-established International Bacc is taken at what we call A-level stage. Gove has debased the word 'baccalaureat' by using it to apply to GCSE-level. (The same debasement has happened to the words 'students' and 'diplomas' to mention just a few. Have babies graduated from nappies to the potty yet?)

The International Bacc is, IMO, a pretty good qualification as it does require some 'core' subjects. The thinking behind that is that those pursuing either the sciences or the arts should not be ignorant of each others' fields of endeavour (C.P. Snow and all that.) Many schools (especially independent schools) now offer the Bacc as an alternative to A-level. At first this did cause a bit of a problem with university entrance, because some universities had not quite caught on to the fact that someone wanting to read physics, for instance, had not simply got an 'A' grade in Maths, Physics and another science. I think that is now resolved.

Someone else commented on the weakness of GCSE music as a subject. I can understand the thinking behind making it accessible to a wider range of kids, but the problem is that it in no way prepares anyone for beginning A-level music. So it is possible to begin a sixth-form music course with no knowledge of notation, no knowledge of history, style and much else. And they have to take an AS level paper after only a couple of terms' study. Someone very well-known to me (!) is head of music in a large sixth-form college and is faced with a yearly intake of up to 20 aspiring A-level music students. Her task is, shall be say, daunting?

[DracoM]

Yes, universities now list the IB as a perfectly acceptable entry qualification and indicate levels they require.
The gap between MOST GCSE subjects and AS/A-level is huge, but in Sciences / Maths even greater. Most Maths teachers will tell you that unless a candidate has A/A* in some form of Maths / Mod Langs / Physics at GCSE they are very likely to struggle big time. Music is the same. The structures may be similar, but content is way ahead.

And I absolutely agree with ardcarp that Gove's use of the 'baccalaureate' is PR scam to make it 'acceptable' and give it an apparent dignity which plain 5 GCSE passes etc does not.

Is Gove another meddling Baker?

[MrGongGong]

So it is possible to begin a sixth-form music course with no knowledge of notation, no knowledge of history, style and much else.

There are many things wrong with GCSE music
BUT some of this is a bit of a myth
for example

http://store.aqa.org.uk/qual/newgcse/pdf/AQA-4270-W-SP.PDF

is a GCSE syllabus

of course whether it's taught well or badly is another thing and some schools allow all sorts of nonsense

but urban myths (like the one about there being NO Classical music in A level) help no one

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Yes, universities now list the IB as a perfectly acceptable entry qualification and indicate levels they require.
The gap between MOST GCSE subjects and AS/A-level is huge, but in Sciences / Maths even greater. Most Maths teachers will tell you that unless a candidate has A/A* in some form of Maths / Mod Langs / Physics at GCSE they are very likely to struggle big time. Music is the same. The structures may be similar, but content is way ahead.

And I absolutely agree with ardcarp that Gove's use of the 'baccalaureate' is PR scam to make it 'acceptable' and give it an apparent dignity which plain 5 GCSE passes etc does not.

Is Gove another meddling Baker?

Surely there's a world of difference between a Bacc which will be 5 core subjects and 5 GCSEs that might include outdoor pursuits, citizenship, textiles, general studies, and home economics?

[teamsaint]

I would have thought that outdoor pursuits , good citizenship, knowledge of and competence with textiles and cooking , and a general knowledge of the world around us (as well as music of course) would be good things to educate people in.
Probably a sight more use than hopelessly one sided views of the Norman Invasion, or learning the periodic table.

[MrGongGong]

Now, now. This is Britain. Just cos you don't agree with an elected Minister, he was elected properly

Nice to see that in the USA the president was actually elected by most of the people who voted

"elected properly" my arse
I'm definitely in the "fast track" queue


some of you might also be interested in this discussion

http://www.teachingmusic.org.uk/mod/forum/forum.aspx?lngForumID=743

[Simon]

"elected properly" my a***

He was elected according to the legally accepted system that we have in Britain at the moment, and appointed properly by the PM.

If you don't like the system, that's your right.

But until it is changed, it's the way it's done, therefore what I wrote is 100% correct.

[MrGongGong]

He was elected according to the legally accepted system that we have in Britain at the moment, and appointed properly by the PM.

If you don't like the system, that's your right.

But until it is changed, it's the way it's done, therefore what I wrote is 100% correct.

All depends on what you mean by "properly"

[DracoM]

http://www.baccforthefuture.com/

Worth a look.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So it is possible to begin a sixth-form music course with no knowledge of notation, no knowledge of history, style and much else.

This used to be true 10 - 15 years ago when GCSEs were first introduced. Now it can only be so if a student is allowed on an A/S course without a GCSE Music qualification. All current GCSE Musics demand study of Classical Music from the Baroque to the late 20th Century. And "World Musics". And Jazz and Rock. Far more extensive "knowledge of history (and) style" than was required under the old "O"-level.

And they have to take an AS level paper after only a couple of terms' study.

Why "only a couple of terms"? What do they do in the period between the Easter holiday and the May Half-Term? It is an argument against A/S-Levels that they don't allow the "year's maturing" that the old "A"-Level permitted (ie the opportunity for ideas about a text, or a skill, to sink in over a two-year period rather than just nine-months - and that the Exam period takes away six weeks of study that wasn't the case earlier. But this is true of all subjects, not just Music.

[MrGongGong]

This used to be true 10 - 15 years ago when GCSEs were first introduced. Now it can only be so if a student is allowed on an A/S course without a GCSE Music qualification. All current GCSE Musics demand study of Classical Music from the Baroque to the late 20th Century. And "World Musics". And Jazz and Rock. Far more extensive "knowledge of history (and) style" than was required under the old "O"-level.

Indeed

I wonder where these myths come from ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder where these myths come from ?

Some (not all) come from the idea that only "Classical" Music can be "properly" studied; that Jazz, World, Rock are not "serious" subjects for "real" Qualifications.

And that because kids aren't taught the "rules" of "Bachian", four-part Chorale Harmonization at GCSE, the qualification is "dumbed down" "O"-Level.

Others from genuine concern that the future of "Classical" Music is threatened. ("Endangered Species Counterpoint" as Milt Babbitt once termed it!)

That far more kids are taking the GCSE (and thus more are exposed to the classic repertoires) than took "O"-Level Music (even in - horror! - Boys' Schools!) suggest that such worries are ill-founded. What does threaten Music education would be if any idiot suggested making compulsory a national Exam syllabus for every sixteen-year-old, in which the Arts were not given status. But surely nobody would be that stupid?!

[An_Inspector_Calls]

I would have thought that outdoor pursuits , good citizenship, knowledge of and competence with textiles and cooking , and a general knowledge of the world around us (as well as music of course) would be good things to educate people in.
Probably a sight more use than hopelessly one sided views of the Norman Invasion, or learning the periodic table.

Yes they are, but they can all be done at home.

[MrGongGong]

Yes they are, but they can all be done at home.

I'm just off to abseil from the roof .................

(eer you can't do a GCSE in "outdoor pursuits")

you can also do maths, english , history etc "at home"

[handsomefortune]

If this is so, or even if it is only partially so, Gove has manufactured a scheme to administer a slow poison into the body of the Expressive Arts in UK.

in a nutshell imo dracom.