Phrases/words that you love

[Joseph K]

At a certain stage in your life, of course, everything you read contains words you hadn't come across before. Why should it be necessary or desirable for that to come to an end?

Indeed - I was going to say something to that effect in my post above, with (what would have been) the qualifier 'except for words you'd come across in spoken language, whose meaning you'd inferred' etc. I over-thought it, you see.

[johncorrigan]

I must say, I'm very keen on the English word "fuck" -- just think of how semantically rich it is

fuck up
fuck over
fuck with
fuck around
fuck a duck
fucked off
fuckface
Sweet fuck all
fuck knows
fuck off
Go fuck yourself
I don’t give a flying fuck
fuck buddy
fuck you
fuck bomb

and so on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

For those who don't know it, perhaps its best use in drama is in the famous "fuck scene" of the American drama The Wire

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3n34oj

One of my favourite uses recently, Mandryka, came in an episode of 'Gogglebox'. One of the Goggleboxers, a sister from Leeds, after a particular episode said: 'Right! off you fuck!' - Mrs C and I found it really funny, so much so that we occasionally use it...in select company of course.

[french frank]

At a certain stage in your life, of course, everything you read contains words you hadn't come across before. Why should it be necessary or desirable for that to come to an end?

True, very true, though I'm not concerned with the reception of the words by the reader but the writer's reason for choosing them. Writing is, after all, a means of communication (including, albeit in a more nebulous way, the affective use of language in creative writing). And if the use of unfamiliar language is to create vaguer associations in the mind of the reader, does it even matter if the word 'anfractuous' conjures up a picture of waves splashing softly (an- lacking, fract- breaking) against ocean-smoothed rocks, as long as it conveys something?

I was interested that the amateur reviewer who, while giving the novel Dorian four stars out of five, nevertheless considered: "[Self] is never able to resist showing off his knowledge of linguistic obscurities." My suspicion is that he hunts for the obscurities and uses them for a motive which I would not myself presume to call 'showing off' as I don't know why he would do it.

[Pulcinella]

I must say, I'm very keen on the English word "fuck" -- just think of how semantically rich it is
.....

Oh Fuck! The fucking fucker's fucking well fucked up.

[gurnemanz]

Oh Fuck! The fucking fucker's fucking well fucked up.

Malcolm Tucker responding to a knock on his office door: Come the fuck in or fuck the fuck off!

[RichardB]

My suspicion is that he hunts for the obscurities and uses them for a motive which I would not myself presume to call 'showing off' as I don't know why he would do it.

I heard somewhere ages ago that Dylan Thomas used to write his work in more or less everyday language and then consult a thesaurus to exchange some of the words for more obscure locutions. This was presented as evidence that Thomas wasn't "really a good poet". I wouldn't see it that way myself. As for Will Self, I think he's much more concerned with the stylistic surface of his writing (like Nabokov or Martin Amis before him) than with narrative structure, with the result that for me his books, with one or two exceptions, begin with a compelling idea and then run out of steam, the aforementioned surface and idea is often not enough to retain my attention, and the content of the book doesn't IMO justify its length. Surely the reason why he might "hunt for obscurities" need be no more mysterious than that there's a joy in discovering new words that you enjoy for their own sake, which is the main point of this thread if I'm not mistaken.

[johncorrigan]

Malcolm Tucker responding to a knock on his office door: Come the fuck in or fuck the fuck off!

[Pulcinella]

I heard somewhere ages ago that Dylan Thomas used to write his work in more or less everyday language and then consult a thesaurus to exchange some of the words for more obscure locutions. This was presented as evidence that Thomas wasn't "really a good poet". I wouldn't see it that way myself. As for Will Self, I think he's much more concerned with the stylistic surface of his writing (like Nabokov or Martin Amis before him) than with narrative structure, with the result that for me his books, with one or two exceptions, begin with a compelling idea and then run out of steam, the aforementioned surface and idea is often not enough to retain my attention, and the content of the book doesn't IMO justify its length. Surely the reason why he might "hunt for obscurities" need be no more mysterious than that there's a joy in discovering new words that you enjoy for their own sake, which is the main point of this thread if I'm not mistaken.

A word I love is pretentious: especially when applied to writers like Amis and Self.

[Mandryka]

Malcolm Tucker responding to a knock on his office door: Come the fuck in or fuck the fuck off!

In David Niven's biography he talks about Mike Curtiz,


Mike Curtiz was the director of The Charge and his Hungarian-oriented English was a source of joy to us all.

High on a rostrum he decided that the right moment had come to order the arrival on the scene of a hundred head of riderless chargers. “Okay!” he yelled into a megaphone. “Bring on the empty horses!”

[Errol] Flynn and I doubled up with laughter. “You lousy bums,” Curtiz shouted, “you and your stinking language…you think I know fuck nothing…well, let me tell you – I know FUCK ALL!”

[french frank]

I heard somewhere ages ago that Dylan Thomas used to write his work in more or less everyday language and then consult a thesaurus to exchange some of the words for more obscure locutions. This was presented as evidence that Thomas wasn't "really a good poet". I wouldn't see it that way myself. As for Will Self, I think he's much more concerned with the stylistic surface of his writing (like Nabokov or Martin Amis before him) than with narrative structure, with the result that for me his books, with one or two exceptions, begin with a compelling idea and then run out of steam, the aforementioned surface and idea is often not enough to retain my attention, and the content of the book doesn't IMO justify its length. Surely the reason why he might "hunt for obscurities" need be no more mysterious than that there's a joy in discovering new words that you enjoy for their own sake, which is the main point of this thread if I'm not mistaken.

I wouldn't question why a word attracted anyone else, but for practical purposes (using in writing or speech) personally I would need a combination of form (etymology), sound and meaning for it to enter my lexicon as a loved word or phrase to use.

I sent the first chapter of My Novel (have I mentioned My Novel before?) to a professional reader who said that using the word 'fallacy' sounded as if I was 'trying to impress'. It astonished me that a common word like 'fallacy' should have that effect, though I did quietly remove the word 'quincunx' from the second chapter, replacing it with 'trio'.

On topic, I rather like 'quincunx'.

[smittims]

I've seen that Mike Curtiz anecdote attributed to Ernest Ansermet at a recording session, Ansermet having prided himself with knowledge of colloquial English, said 'you English, you think I know...' and the rest verbatim. One can imagine the effect on the LPO ; I'm told it was some minutes before they could continue.

I understand many choice anecdotes get transferred from person to person. John Amis said Sir Thomas Beecham assured him that many so-called 'Beecham stories' didn't actually happen to him.

[Joseph K]

I was interested that the amateur reviewer who, while giving the novel Dorian four stars out of five, nevertheless considered: "[Self] is never able to resist showing off his knowledge of linguistic obscurities." My suspicion is that he hunts for the obscurities and uses them for a motive which I would not myself presume to call 'showing off' as I don't know why he would do it.

He would do it because, as I have already said or at least intimated, more words means more colours, different sounds and rhythms and so on.

I've read more or less every work of Self and I'm the converse of Richard B in that there are only a couple that I haven't been so enamoured of. Dorian happens to be one of my very favourite works of his, it is really brilliant, horrible but extremely funny. I highly recommend it.

[RichardB]

I've read more or less every work of Self and I'm the converse of Richard B in that there are only a couple that I haven't been so enamoured of. Dorian happens to be one of my very favourite works of his, it is really brilliant, horrible but extremely funny. I highly recommend it.

I haven't read that many of his books, not Dorian for example. I think How the Dead Live is my favourite, and The Book of Dave is an example of a brilliant idea that gets bogged down and ends up not getting anywhere. The Butt is another, although I guess getting bogged down in a post-Kafka sort of way is what it's actually about.

[Serial_Apologist]

On topic, I rather like 'quincunx'.

Particular when written in Quink inks!

[Joseph K]

I haven't read that many of his books, not Dorian for example. I think How the Dead Live is my favourite, and The Book of Dave is an example of a brilliant idea that gets bogged down and ends up not getting anywhere. The Butt is another, although I guess getting bogged down in a post-Kafka sort of way is what it's actually about.

This might raise a few eyebrows but I actually think Self's Dorian is even more brilliant than Wilde's! Certainly, at any rate, more grotesque and surreal and more extreme than The Picture of Dorian Gray. I seem to recall The Book of Dave becoming quite unexpectedly moving in its latter part. The ones I'm not so enamoured of are Phone and Walking To Hollywood. But to end on a positive note, I also heartily recommend the short story collection Liver, which is absolutely brilliant and one of whose stories ('Prometheus') is a fantastic satire on a corporate CEO who bears somewhat of a resemblance to Richard Branson, IIRC.