Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Lat-Literal]

Given that?

Yes - I should say so - even though it has a mild scientific tone which wouldn't suit every occasion.

W to E

Seeing......... considering.......... light.......... view......... being......... fact......... given!

But context also matters.

(a) Taking into account there are 132 rooms in total, there still isn't one single room in that establishment.

This would be better as "There are 132 rooms in total and there isn't one single room there".

But:

(b) Taking into account there are 132 rooms in total, I'd have thought they would have had a single room.

Then that is an opinion and it couldn't be anything other than opinion. "Considering" could possibly fit to it.

[jean]

What do people make of 'seeing as' (BBC News story 'But seeing as there are 132 rooms in total …')?

I'd use seeing that.

I remember being taught at school that seeing as was terribly wrong, which is probably why I shudder involuntarily when I see or hear it. An education marker as you say, but I don't know why, seeing that...

(1) Seeing that is well established:

1504 W. Barons in Paston Lett. & Papers (2004) II. 501 I wol..exhorte you to take it as..paciently as ye can, seeyng that we al be mortal and borne to dey.

1526 Bible (Tyndale) John ii. 18 What token shewest thou vnto vs, seynge that thou dost these thinges? [So most later versions.]

(2) Then, to judge from later OED citations, the that disappears altogether...

1711 J. Puckle Club (1817) 35 Seeing Great Britain affords so many lawyers,..he is doubly a fool that..applies himself to a scab.

1796 H. Hunter tr. J. H. B. de Saint-Pierre Stud. Nature (1799) III. 578 It must be of importance to accustom young people to it [sc. vegetable diet], seeing it's influence is..so happy on beauty of person and tranquillity of soul.

...and (3) seeing as appears in 1833, with Dickens:

1833 Dickens Let. 18 Mar. (1965) I. 17 Seeing as I cannot fail to do that I have engaged in a pursuit.

...and then (4) we start to get seeing as how (first noted in Dialect Notes, 1895), which is utterly beyond the pale:

1974 S. Gulliver Vulcan Bull. 29 Seeing as how you're always short of £sd, I thought you could maybe earn a bit.

.

[jean]

Italian has a near-equivalent in visto che, though if you were being really pedantic you would translate that as it having been seen that...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd use seeing that.

So'd I. (Or even "Seeing how", in speech.)

[ahinton]

What would be wrong with just "as"?

[jean]

(Or even "Seeing how", in speech.)

Seeing as how, you mean!

[jean]

What would be wrong with just "as"?

Nothing wrong with it. But you might want something with a bit more weight.

[ahinton]

Seeing as how, you mean.

No; I refer to the the context of the phrase in the BBC News story "But seeing as there are 132 rooms in total" and wonder what might be wrong in simply dropping the "seeing".

[jean]

I know - that was a reply to ferney's post, not yours (I've now put in the appropriate quotations).

Phrases such as seeing that, considering that, in view of the fact that as alternatives to as have been in use for centuries; I don't see a need to abolish them.

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1)

(My head is full of these chunks of the KJV, from my Nonconformist upbringing. You can't mess with the KJV.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Seeing as how, you mean!

I don't think I've ever said that - I think lazily I just tend to say "Seeing how" (a residue from the - more frequent - times I've said "Just seeing how you are" to people).

[jean]

There's no answer to that!

[french frank]

The context was the BBC reporter querying whether the White House was 'a dump' (as Trump was alleged to have claimed). Photographs of official reception rooms looked pretty much like 'stately homes' but "But seeing as there are 132 rooms in total, are the non-pictured ones in such good nick?"

I think 'given that' is better, and perhaps more 'formal' is also more appropriate. I wondered whether it was dialectal, like 'I was sat'. The phrase 'in such good nick' lowers the tone, somewhhhhat, too

[jean]

'Seeing that' isn't dialectal though 'seeing as' arguably is and 'seeing as how' definitely.

This is what I tried to explain in my post above.

So there is no need to move away from 'seeing' altogether to be sure of being absolutely standard.

But I suspect that the unimpeachable 'seeing that' has become tainted by association with the other two.

[ahinton]

I know - that was a reply to ferney's post, not yours (I've now put in the appropriate quotations).

Sorry about that; I wasn't sure, actually!

my Nonconformist upbringing

Well, I didn't have one of those, although I suppose that I was somewhat non-conformist in other ways...

[Padraig]

I think 'given that' is better, and perhaps more 'formal' is also more appropriate. I wondered whether it was dialectal, like 'I was sat'.

I think 'seeing as' is used widely here in NI, (seeing) as it seems to trip off my tongue. I don't think, though, that, " 'given that' it seems to trip off my tongue", means the same thing.