Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Richard Barrett]

I don't define words, my dictionary does all that sort of clever stuff for me.

This concept of infallibility you here assign to your dictionary is one of the more stultifying legacies the church of Rome has bequeathed to the world.

[MrGongGong]

This concept of infallibility you here assign to your dictionary is one of the more stultifying legacies the church of Rome has bequeathed to the world.

Or as mr Lydon put it


"The written word is a lie"

[ahinton]

Cliveden House does overlook a semi-gorge, one half of the river Thames being cliff-sided at that point, and is in Buckinghamshire; and I would say, having visited there, that the stream that runs down into the Thames, to the south of the plateau on which the mansion stands, is definitely in a gorge.

OK, well that's presumably where the concert took place, then.

[ahinton]

I'm only going by my dictionary definition. I don't define words, my dictionary does all that sort of clever stuff for me.

So exactly what 'part of the point' has my dictionary missed .. ?

I don't think so. Does your dictionary offer no definition for "involved", "involvement" and the like?

[P. G. Tipps]

This concept of infallibility you here assign to your dictionary is one of the more stultifying legacies the church of Rome has bequeathed to the world.

'the church of Rome'

A curious phrase once used mostly by Far Right Protestants in N. Ireland, and also those on President Donald Trump's maternal island home no less, and seemingly now becoming rather more prevalent elsewhere.

Personally I've never actually come across a member of this elusive church/sect, even in Rome. I'd love to meet one some day, we'd have so much to discuss!

However, as for dictionaries, my encyclopedia tells me that the first European dictionary known to exist was the Catholicon (1287) by Johannes Balbus.

You can learn so much from dictionaries and encyclopedias, RB ...

[french frank]

I'm only going by my dictionary definition. I don't define words, my dictionary does all that sort of clever stuff for me.

The reader is supposed to do the clever stuff - matching a meaning to a context in such a way that it will be correctly understood. E.g. when I set a prose for French translation - a passage from Bradbury's The History Man: Howard, a sociology lecturer, is described as wearing 'a black leather jacket'. This was rendered as, if I remember, 'un baliste', probably because the student was looking up the word for 'leather' and found' 'leatherjacket Icthy.' Clever stuff by the dictionary, not by the student.

Put not your trust in dictionaries.

[ahinton]

The reader is supposed to do the clever stuff - matching a meaning to a context in such a way that it will be correctly understood. E.g. when I set a prose for French translation - a passage from Bradbury's The History Man: Howard, a sociology lecturer, is described as wearing 'a black leather jacket'. This was rendered as, if I remember, 'un baliste', probably because the student was looking up the word for 'leather' and found' 'leatherjacket Icthy.' Clever stuff by the dictionary, not by the student.

Put not your trust in dictionaries.

...or, better still, use them for the purpose for which they were intended but resist any temptation to graft additional purposes onto them, thereby elevating them to positions to which they are less than suited...

[ahinton]

'the church of Rome'

A curious phrase once used mostly by Far Right Protestants in N. Ireland, and also those on President Donald Trump's maternal island home no less, and seemingly now becoming rather more prevalent elsewhere.

In terms of what is generally understood to be denoted by it, I don't believe it to be any more curious a phrase than "Far Right Protestants".

Personally I've never actually come across a member of this elusive church/sect, even in Rome. I'd love to meet one some day, we'd have so much to discuss!

Then maybe you should get out more, although you'd not need to travel as far as Rome itself in order to be able to do this.

However, as for dictionaries, my encyclopedia tells me that the first European dictionary known to exist was the Catholicon (1287) by Johannes Balbus.

You can learn so much from dictionaries and encyclopedias

Whilst that might not be entirely untrue, the level of trust that one puts in either needs to be appropriate.

[P. G. Tipps]

The reader is supposed to do the clever stuff - matching a meaning to a context in such a way that it will be correctly understood ... Put not your trust in dictionaries.

Indeed a word can have different meanings but all of these one would hope to find in any good dictionary.

The problem is not the dictionary. That is an essential tool for understanding the meaning of any word. The real problem is non-dictionary 'definitions' used by many today.

Ahinton will no doubt request an example. In anticipation of this I might suggest the word 'liberal' (small 'l') which today is used to denote a person with rather strong 'socially-radical' views, and who regularly denounces 'non-liberals'. They (the 'liberals') have a perfect right to hold such views, of course, whatever we call them, just like the 'non-liberals' who are more commonly referred to as 'bigots'.

However, my dictionary says that 'a liberal' is 'one willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas'

I wholly agree with my dictionary, french frank!

[jean]

...The real problem is non-dictionary 'definitions' used by many today.

...I might suggest the word 'liberal' (small 'l') which today is used to denote a person with rather strong 'socially-radical' views...

However, my dictionary says that 'a liberal' is 'one willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas'...

I wholly agree with my dictionary, french frank!

I think your dictionary is rather limited, then.

Mine includes among the definitions it offers:

4.a. ... (Polit.) favouring social reform and a degree of state intervention in matters of economics and social justice; left-wing.

'the church of Rome'

A curious phrase once used mostly by Far Right Protestants in N. Ireland...

Only the lily-livered ones.

Give me the Whore of Babylon any day.

[french frank]

I wholly agree with my dictionary, french frank!

We have had this discussion before somewhere. As Jean says, some dictionaries are more limited than others. A modern dictionary recognises that the meanings of words do evolve: the OED will give historical meanings and modern meanings.

Look up Latin liberalis and you get 'generous, liberal, bountiful, ample, dignified, honorable, befitting a freedman'. I see no specifically political meaning in French or English prior to the 18th century. How can a word have any useful meaning other than 'the way it is used currently'?

[Richard Barrett]

once used mostly by Far Right Protestants in N. Ireland

Well, I have nothing to do with the far right, hardly anything to do with Protestantism, having outgrown it at an early age, and very little to do with Northern Ireland, having only been there once. I just liked the sound of "the church of Rome". According to my dictionary it would seem a more appropriate choice of word than "catholic", which apparently means:

1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

I take it you would regard this dictionary of mine as less than infallible.

[Stanfordian]

Well, I have nothing to do with the far right, hardly anything to do with Protestantism, having outgrown it at an early age, and very little to do with Northern Ireland, having only been there once. I just liked the sound of "the church of Rome". According to my dictionary it would seem a more appropriate choice of word than "catholic", which apparently means:

I take it you would regard this dictionary of mine as less than infallible.

I was given some advice years ago from someone very wise that: Refraining from talking about Politics, Religion and Sex is often the best policy.

[vinteuil]

.


... ah, but there's the distinction between "caarthlic" (as those of a Romish persuasion in these parts have it * ) meaning RC, and "cath'lic" meaning 'having sympathies with all; broad-minded, liberal' (as Richd: B's dixonary puts it).

And never forget that in English, 'liberal' means (more or less) left-leaning and well-intentioned - whereas in French 'liberal' means right-wing, neo-con, fascist...

Dictionaries - dontcha lov' em?


* - especially those for whom the eucharist is the Maarsss






.


.

[jean]

...According to my dictionary it would seem a more appropriate choice of word than "catholic", which apparently means:

...3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Any Catholic could have told you (they probably wouldn't be so tactless as to dwell upon the point these days) that the Church of Rome is the Catholic church, and the others are mere upstarts and neither catholic nor even churches at all.