Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[ahinton]

Excellent news - given that

Ah, yes, but just because he's never done that before doesn't mean that he never will...

[cloughie]

Or real ale.

Yes, though if they called one now would it go down well with a certain proportion of the beer-drinking electorate?

[P. G. Tipps]

Sorry? I assume that jean mistyped a two-letter word and then corrected it, yet you ask about my alleged "grammatical eagle-eye" in respect thereof; someone seems to be missing the point (whatever it might be and assuming that there still is one), methinks!

Superbly expressed, ahinton !

[Lat-Literal]

"Progressive Alliance" - progressive here is unequivocally an Americanism. As a British man, I recoil every time I hear it because in language terms it is so modern and un-English.

[Richard Barrett]

"Progressive Alliance" - progressive here is unequivocally an Americanism.

How do you reckon that?

[Lat-Literal]

How do you reckon that?

It was nowhere in sight in 2015 and is straight out of the Clinton team's mantra book.

The anglicized version is to add "alliance" I can give concrete examples. On the Isle of Wight that is done by people called Vix who like to dull down what is probably their true name, Victoria for being too posh, hint at "vixen" and hope that eighty year old pensioners will ignore marital status and non Wight roots and assume that she means Vectis. That is notwithstanding Osborne House and its connections with Queen Victoria but,of course, that house is perceived as not being a part of the ultra left right wing American progression.

[P. G. Tipps]

"Progressive Alliance" - progressive here is unequivocally an Americanism. As a British man, I recoil every time I hear it because in language terms it is so modern and un-English

I salute you, Sir!

Though I do doubt your sincerity on this particular issue, I have to say ...

Why am I such an incorrigible cynic amongst this crowd of irredeemable naives ... ?

Please help me, ahinton!

[Richard Barrett]

It was nowhere in sight in 2015

That isn't true. Nicola Sturgeon in January 2015: "I’m signalling today that if there are votes in the House of Commons after the general election that would propose halting the privatisation of the health service we’re seeing in England, that would propose restoring the health service as a fully public service, then SNP MPs would vote for that because that would help us protect our own budget in the future. It would also be part of our progressive alliance with others in England who also want to see a halt to NHS privatisation.” There's also the "Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats", a grouping of parties in the European Parliament formed in 1953.

[Lat-Literal]

That isn't true. Nicola Sturgeon in January 2015: "I’m signalling today that if there are votes in the House of Commons after the general election that would propose halting the privatisation of the health service we’re seeing in England, that would propose restoring the health service as a fully public service, then SNP MPs would vote for that because that would help us protect our own budget in the future. It would also be part of our progressive alliance with others in England who also want to see a halt to NHS privatisation.” There's also the "Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats", a grouping of parties in the European Parliament formed in 1953.

Erm, no.

It might have been one part of the Common Assembly of the European Coal and Steel Community. The EP cannot rightly be spoken about as an entity prior to 1958. But it hardly matters. "Progressive" means little or nothing in this era whereas it may have been meant by some abroad as a proposal for democratic elections in the EP during the time of Churchill/Eden/Macmillan. Those commenced in 1979 long after national elections. As for the SNP, I might not dispute that its modern transatlantic origins in Britain were there and will concede that it emanates from 2015 although the difference of one year could appear to be a quibble. What I do know is that it has mushroomed in the last few months and is now on a par with its use by H Clinton in 2016. My objection isn't political as it isn't substantive. Labour doesn't often mention it. It is a veiled term to serve personal objectives. There is a massive gap between 1953 and 2015 during which time there was much talk of coalitions and one took place without the phrase being in the news daily, weekly, monthly.

[Lat-Literal]

"We Scots" - Angus Robertson, born Wimbledon, Tommy Sheppard, born Coleraine, Shona Robison, born Redcar, Nicola Sturgeon, Sunderland roots, Derek Mackay, claims born in Scotland but not specific, Angela Constance, born Blackburn, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, born Chelsea, Michael Russell, born Bromley, ad infinitum. Mainly English people with issues.

[Richard Barrett]

Sorry, you said

"Progressive Alliance" - progressive here is unequivocally an Americanism

and

It was nowhere in sight in 2015

neither of which is actually true despite your claim that it only "matters" when you say it does.

Gordon Brown also specifically called for a "progressive alliance" with the LibDems in 2010. I could go on finding such examples, but you seem to have decided it's an Americanism and no amount of facts will dislodge this idea!

[Lat-Literal]

Sorry, you said

and

neither of which is actually true despite your claim that it only "matters" when you say it does.

Gordon Brown also specifically called for a "progressive alliance" with the LibDems in 2010. I could go on finding such examples, but you seem to have decided it's an Americanism and no amount of facts will dislodge this idea!

Fake news, I'm afraid, although genuine full marks for effort. Quote me the part where I said it only matters if I say it does and you may have what remains of my mortgage payments. You are safe there. Until this point, you have been seeking to establish a significant difference between January 2015 and 1 January 2016. Now it's Brown. Yes, you are right. I concede further while remarking again that there is a big difference between the 1950s and the 2010s when it wasn't repeated in the UK. But we can go way back. All the way - and you know this which is why your other examples are not forthcoming - to 2007. Oh the misty eyed nostalgia for so long ago. It's Hillary Clinton again. She was criticised in the US for not being as "progressive" as Obama. It's as American as Uncle Sam, Momma's traditional apple pie and megabucks big business. It just sounds different in Scotland.

[Richard Barrett]

What you said with nothing but bluster as justification was "But it hardly matters. "Progressive" means little or nothing in this era." As I said I don't much see the point in wasting my time bringing up more examples since they clearly won't make any difference given your fixation on Hillary Clinton as populariser of the word "progressive" in politics. Socialists have always used the word to describe policies and developments which go in the direction of social justice. I've used it in that sense myself on many occasions since at least the 1990s. It simply isn't an Americanism.

[Lat-Literal]

What you said with nothing but bluster as justification was "But it hardly matters. "Progressive" means little or nothing in this era." As I said I don't much see the point in wasting my time bringing up more examples since they clearly won't make any difference given your fixation on Hillary Clinton as populariser of the word "progressive" in politics. Socialists have always used the word to describe policies and developments which go in the direction of social justice. I've used it in that sense myself on many occasions since at least the 1990s. It simply isn't an Americanism.

I can honestly say when studying politics A'level and then in my politics degree (1979-1985) that I never once heard the word "progressive" used in relation to socialist or other politics, nor indeed was it a memorable word from Benn in the green fields of Glastonbury up to the last decade. You must have been ahead of your time. You quote my words as I knew you would. 99% of people would view those as the expression of opinion. The "only" to the matters and then "when I say it does" was your appendage alone. I would have been a reluctant Clinton voter so I have nothing against the woman other than she is in the old post 1989 mainstream of pretending Russia is under Stalin. McCainism is not for me.

[Richard Barrett]

You quote my words as I knew you would. 99% of people would view those as the expression of opinion.

Indeed so, a misguided opinion which you're trying to defend by spurious claims of knowledge of when something "matters" and when it doesn't. Anyway: I presume your "A" level and politics degree didn't lead you in the direction of actually participating in socialist politics, where the word "progressive" has always been used in the sense I described. Since you mention Tony Benn, here he is in 2000: "As you come out with a progressive idea, it's completely ignored, notably by the media. If you go on, you're absolutely mad. Then if you go on further, you're dangerous. Then there's a pause, and suddenly you can't find anyone who doesn't claim to have thought of it in the first place."