Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Pabmusic]

English is unusual in requiring different verb forms for the protasis and apodosis of a conditional sentence. In Latin, and the few modern European languages I know, the same construction is used.

But we're supposed to say If you had done this, I would have done that.

This can become (for the sake of what the speaker feels is balance) If you would have done this, I would have done that, contracted to If you'd have done this, I'd have done that.

Them we find the first clause expanded again, wrongly, to If you had have done this...

You are quite right. People don't carefully consider subtleties of meaning (at least, not usually). "If I should have done..." and "If I had done..." could be said to have different meanings, with the first referring to an earlier time than the second. But that's the sort of distinction for pedants.

Wait a minute though... -???-

Doh!

[Radio64]

Them's fine explanations.

'er knows 'er stuff !*


(* I've always presumed it's Jean as in Jean Simmons, and not Jean as in Jean-Michel Jarre)

[jean]

It is.

The Italians I taught thought that it was Jean as in gin, which they found hilarious - because they really couldn't hear the difference.

[Radio64]

If a Bernstein such as Leonard were now a cultural icon in this country, he seemed to feel, then such a person should somehow be more closely associated in people's minds with European cultural icons.

There's so much that is wrong in that sentence. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[Radio64]

It is.

The Italians I taught thought that it was Jean as in gin, which they found hilarious - because they really couldn't hear the difference.

..rather than as in jeans?

[jean]

There's so much that is wrong in that sentence. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

The writer imagines Bernstein thinking something like 'I am now a cultural icon in America, so I should be more closely associated in people's minds with European cultural icons, who pronounce their names in European ways - in my case, -stein not -steen.'

Bernstein isn't thinking If I were a cultural icon, I would pronounce my name in such a way. He's thinking I am, and I will.

Here is the discussion.

[ahinton]

I've had a similar comment from a Scot (Edinburgh) who lived for several years in Inverness

where many people sppeak English with less of a tgrace of any kiond of Scottish accent than anywhere else in Scotland, methinks.

[Radio64]

The writer imagines Bernstein thinking something like 'I am now a cultural icon in America, so I should be more closely associated in people's minds with European cultural icons, who pronounce their names in European ways - in my case, -stein not -steen.'

Bernstein isn't thinking If I were a cultural icon, I would pronounce my name in such a way. He's thinking I am, and I will.

Here is the discussion.

Even more confused. But let's move on...

What about people using 'like' and 'love' in the present continuous? "I'm liking..." "I'm loving..."

gaahh!!

[mangerton]

Well! That post of mine has given rise to much informed (and a little uninformed ) comment. Thanks pabs for your support.

I do enjoy jean's postings. They are short and to the point, and I'm loving reading words like "protasis" and "apodosis".

(Sorry R64 - I do of course agree with you!)

[mercia]

oh dear, this fault must be very deeply-ingrained in my brain, I'm sure I can hear a teacher saying to me - "if you'd've done your homework on time, you wouldn't have had to catch up now"

[I'm loving this thread ]

[cloughie]

Homage

I have always pronounced this 'hommij' but now there is an annoying trendy pronounciation 'hommarge'.

[Radio64]

Homage

I have always pronounced this 'hommij' but now there is an annoying trendy pronounciation 'hommarge'.

and without even dropping the aitch!

[Bryn]

From one of our very own this very morn, "There are a large number of Bruckner recordings clamouring for your attention ... ". No names. No pack drill.

[jean]

Homage

I have always pronounced this 'hommij' but now there is an annoying trendy pronounciation 'hommarge'.

Different words - or rather, different developments of what was originally the same word.

I'm sure there's a discussion about it here somewhere.

[Nick Armstrong]

"No names. No pack drill."