Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Radio64]

A client of mine from south of London often uses the personal pronun 'yous' the second person plural. I often find that a bit irritating although I also like to think it's some kind of return to an archaic form of English, (cf. French 'vous', Ital. 'voi') which may have survived as a dialectic form.

Any ideas? jean?

[Bryn]

Worse still, "Febuary", from the same gentleman, same programme!

Whereas every schoolboy knows that it's pronounced "Febry".

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Whereas every schoolboy knows that it's pronounced "Febry".

…which at least shows it's possible to pronounce an "r" after the "b", rather than a non-existent "y".

[Richard Tarleton]

A client of mine from south of London often uses the personal pronun 'yous' the second person plural. I often find that a bit irritating although I also like to think it's some kind of return to an archaic form of English, (cf. French 'vous', Ital. 'voi') which may have survived as a dialectic form.

Any ideas? jean?

Not an expert unlike jean but I was very used to "youse" (singular) when living in N Ireland, see Mid-Ulster English.

[Radio64]

Not an expert unlike jean but I was very used to "youse" (singular) when living in N Ireland, see Mid-Ulster English.

Interesting. Seems like the Irish also took itover to the US (especially NY) ..who perhaps re-exported it back to...sarf Lahndon.

[jean]

A client of mine from south of London often uses the personal pronun 'yous' the second person plural. I often find that a bit irritating although I also like to think it's some kind of return to an archaic form of English, (cf. French 'vous', Ital. 'voi') which may have survived as a dialectic form.

Any ideas? jean?

I have seen linguists advance that theory and I would love to believe it, but I have to say that though it may have started life as a plural, in areas where it's common (like Liverpool) it's used for plural and singular indiscriminately.

[gurnemanz]

I've spent my life studying and teaching language and, in my experience, even people who claim that they always pronounce words like "February" "library" and "probably" meticulously accurately do not actually do so most of the time in practice, especially when speaking informally or quickly. It is usually fairly easy to catch them out doing exactly the thing they condemn in others. I had an argument with someone in a pub once who believed it was not OK in colloquial usage to leave out the "t" in "postman", "Christmas" etc. This kind of assimilation is not sinful but quite normal and natural, especially over time, as with the name "England", as whittled down over centuries from the Old English "Englaland". wiki.

[Radio64]

I have seen linguists advance that theory and I would love to believe it, but I have to say that though it may have started life as a plural, in areas where it's common (like Liverpool) it's used for plural and singular indiscriminately.

Which is definitely not correct! So are we to presume these peoples never used 'thou' and 'ye' in the past to distinguish sing./pl.?

[jean]

Which is definitely not correct!

Unless we tell ourselves they're using the plural form as a polite form of address.

[jean]

I've spent my life studying and teaching language and, in my experience, even people who claim that they always pronounce words like "February" "library" and "probably" meticulously accurately do not actually do so most of the time in practice, especially when speaking informally or quickly. It is usually fairly easy to catch them out doing exactly the thing they condemn in others.

My experience exactly.

And doesn't anyone think it odd that here, on the same thread, we have examples of pronunciations omitting letters or whole syllables from words which are considered desirable when they emanate from speakers of RP (secret'ry, med'cine) but a sign of lazy or sloppy speech when perpetrated by the uneducated masses (Febury).

[Radio64]

Unless we tell ourselves they're using the plural form as a polite form of address.

Again, interesting as indeed in vous, voi (arch Ital.), Sie etc..

[jean]

And like us to begin with - you, originally plural, begins to be used (except by Quakers) as a polite singular form, so a new plural (youse) is invented, and that gradually comes into use for the singular too...

It took me ages to discover why Italian uses the third person feminine singular form this purpose.

[ahinton]

...words like "February" "library" and "probably" meticulously accurately do not actually do so most of the time in practice, especially when speaking informally or quickly. It is usually fairly easy...

That is so rich in adverbiality that it would do credit to the notorious adverbosity of the music critic Andrew Clements!...

[Radio64]

..

It took me ages to discover why Italian uses the third person feminine singular form this purpose.

..and why Mussolini wanted to abolish it?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And like us to begin with - you, originally plural, begins to be used (except by Quakers) as a polite singular form, so a new plural (youse) is invented, and that gradually comes into use for the singular too...

Quakers only did this to emphasise that all people should be given equal respect. They don't speak like that nowadays.