Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Padraig]

I hadn't seen that item (or Mary's comment) but I'm surprised no menntion was made, either in the article itself or in the comments, of the haitch pronunciation as a feature of (Catholic) Hiberno-English.

Here's a good account:

http://stancarey.wordpress.com/2013/...h-lets-ear-it/

You beat me to it , jean, not that I had such a comprehensive account as that to add.
Being Irish and Catholic I should be a haitch man, but being a Northern Irishman and Catholic I am in fact an aitch man. I always regard the haitchers as from the South, like my wife; but so far there have been no incidents on linguistic grounds.

[Serial_Apologist]

You beat me to it , jean, not that I had such a comprehensive account as that to add.
Being Irish and Catholic I should be a haitch man, but being a Northern Irishman and Catholic I am in fact an aitch man. I always regard the haitchers as from the South, like my wife; but so far there have been no incidents on linguistic grounds.

Being an old-fashioned socialist, I'm an aitch man: aitch for all and all for aitch.

[jean]

Being an old-fashioned socialist...

But a Vanguardist all the same.

[Serial_Apologist]

But a Vanguardist all the same.

That certainly would have been true at one time, jean.

[jean]

It still is, if you want to lead the rest of the proletariat to adopt your pronunciation!

[Honoured Guest]

Being Irish and Catholic I should be a haitch man, but being a Northern Irishman and Catholic I am in fact an aitch man. I always regard the haitchers as from the South, like my wife; but so far there have been no incidents on linguistic grounds.

Heartfelt suggestion - It would be wonderful for England and Wales if Northern Ireland were to form a political union with an independent Scotland.

[Serial_Apologist]

It still is, if you want to lead the rest of the proletariat to adopt your pronunciation!

Sadly not since 14, jean, when I was subjected to electrocution in order to be head soloist in the school choir!

(I was designated as Pride in a school production of "Dr Faustus", and made to repeat "I am Prrrride" over and over again until all London accent was expunged and I could perfectly enunciate the words a la Laurence Olivier.. Seriously!)

[Serial_Apologist]

Heartfelt suggestion - It would be wonderful for England and Wales if Northern Ireland were to form a political union with an independent Scotland.

Yes, I bet that would please the Catholics!

[jean]

(I was designated as Pride in a school production of "Dr Faustus", and made to repeat "I am Prrrride" over and over again until all London accent was expunged and I could perfectly enunciate the words a la Laurence Olivier.. Seriously!)

At least you got the chance to take part...not like Tony Harrison, whose local accent meant Leeds Grammar School never allowed him to take part in school Shakespeare.

[Serial_Apologist]

At least you got the chance to take part...not like Tony Harrison, whose local accent meant Leeds Grammar School never allowed him to take part in school Shakespeare.

Well well well...

Minsconceived, too - local accents would have been an intrinsic part of any Shakespeare play. Indeed - I need to check this, but from what I know RP as we think of it as a middle/upper class Home Counties accent was not established until the 18th century.

[Padraig]

Heartfelt suggestion - It would be wonderful for England and Wales if Northern Ireland were to form a political union with an independent Scotland.

Honoured Guest, Sometimes I get depressed by contributions on this board. This is one of those times, though I have to acknowledge that you read my post and replied to it.

[jean]

Well well well...

Minsconceived, too - local accents would have been an intrinsic part of any Shakespeare play. Indeed - I need to check this, but from what I know RP as we think of it as a middle/upper class Home Counties accent was not established until the 18th century.

Here's Tony Harrison himself on the subject:

[John Tusa, interviewing] I know you've many times told the story about the teacher who rejected your accent. Some won't have heard it, so just tell it to me, would you?

Tony Harrison Well, I... it's again a source of... the sort of retrospective aggro I built in to the reclamation of 'the Mysteries'. The reason is that an English teacher that I had at Leeds grammar school, would always, as soon as I opened my mouth to read a poem would stop me because I had a thick urban Leeds accent. I'd say 'Me 'eart aches in a drowsy numbness'. 'Please, stop.' And I had no, none of the, you know, none of the knowledge then to know that Keats was a Cockney, that Wordsworth was often considered incomprehensible when it came to London, because he had a Cumbrian accent. I hadn't got that information. I didn't know then that it was all... the idea of received pronunciation was simply based on the speech of the southern public schools, that culture had been dubbed into that voice. Even things like 'The Mystery Plays.' I saw 'The Mystery Plays' in the 50s in York ; and they're written in an earlier medieval form of the accent I ended up speaking. And God was terribly posh, and Jesus was terribly posh, and only the comic parts were allowed to be Yorkshire . And they...even then I was irritated by that, so that I remember when I talked to Bill Bryden at the National, I thought, 'Now is my chance to reclaim Northern classics for the voice they were written.'...

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's Tony Harrison himself on the subject:

[John Tusa, interviewing] I know you've many times told the story about the teacher who rejected your accent. Some won't have heard it, so just tell it to me, would you?

Tony Harrison Well, I... it's again a source of... the sort of retrospective aggro I built in to the reclamation of 'the Mysteries'. The reason is that an English teacher that I had at Leeds grammar school, would always, as soon as I opened my mouth to read a poem would stop me because I had a thick urban Leeds accent. I'd say 'Me 'eart aches in a drowsy numbness'. 'Please, stop.' And I had no, none of the, you know, none of the knowledge then to know that Keats was a Cockney, that Wordsworth was often considered incomprehensible when it came to London, because he had a Cumbrian accent. I hadn't got that information. I didn't know then that it was all... the idea of received pronunciation was simply based on the speech of the southern public schools, that culture had been dubbed into that voice. Even things like 'The Mystery Plays.' I saw 'The Mystery Plays' in the 50s in York ; and they're written in an earlier medieval form of the accent I ended up speaking. And God was terribly posh, and Jesus was terribly posh, and only the comic parts were allowed to be Yorkshire . And they...even then I was irritated by that, so that I remember when I talked to Bill Bryden at the National, I thought, 'Now is my chance to reclaim Northern classics for the voice they were written.'...

Thanks v much, jean. I'm tucking into the rest of that interview now.

Edit: Those Tusa interviews are a fantastic resource, which due to pressures I missed in their time, so I'm most grateful, jean.

[ahinton]

Heartfelt suggestion - It would be wonderful for England and Wales if Northern Ireland were to form a political union with an independent Scotland.

What? - and thereby sacrifice its membership of EU and risk being currency-less for a time? No, surely if Scotland opts for independence despite threats of these two things that have lately been visited upon them respectively by Barroso and by bigwigs in England's three main political parties, Northern Ireland's best option would be to form a political union with the Irish Republic? - not least on the grounds that everyone whom I know from Northern Ireland considers him/herself to be Irish in any case...

[french frank]

I think this is getting off-topic: please don't pursue the political aspects attaching to the Northern Ireland situation.