Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[french frank]

But I defer here to the pertick'ler knowledge of French Frank in sich matters....

Oh, yes, especially me having (once, I think) been a specialist in medieval literature But I'd have said probably facultatif. Not sure about the regional aspect, but no liaison tends to be a bit less soigné. The hiatus less of a problem before un. Aprez-avoir, apre(z) un rêve?

[Roger Webb]

... Littré he say :

Après / a-prê. L' s se lie : après un an, dites a-prê-z un an

I always felt that if there was a difference of opinion as the pronouncing of an s, the tendency in the south would be to pronounce and in the north to leave it silent -

moins, Aubenas, Privas, Chenas, Julienas

But I defer here to the pertick'ler knowledge of French Frank in sich matters....

Surely whether the s is silent or not is dependent upon the first letter of the following word: vowel = sounded, consonant= silent

Whilst in Paris, for years I made the mistake of sounding the s in Les Halles, the H is trickier as the s is sometimes sounded, dependent upon whether the H is an aspirant.

But I draw your attention to the above YouTube...it's a fascinating study - the chap sounds like a voice coach and therefore knows what he is talking about.

[vinteuil]

'liaison et l’enchaînement' - it's quite a complicated area with predictable exceptions. Here's a useful (Canadian!) primer -

"Les règles de la liaison sont complexes et s’expliquent par des facteurs phonétiques, morphologiques et syntaxiques. Ces règles varient aussi en fonction du niveau de langue.
Ainsi, on fait plus de liaisons dans la langue soutenue (dans un discours officiel, par exemple) que dans la langue de tous les jours, et on en fait moins dans le style familier ou populaire. La liaison est aussi un phénomène qui évolue dans le temps, puisqu’on a déjà fait beaucoup plus de liaisons qu’on en fait aujourd’hui.
Certaines liaisons sont obligatoires dans tous les contextes, alors que d’autres sont interdites dans tous les contextes. D’autres, enfin, sont facultatives."

https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/23541/la-prononciation/liaisons/la-liaison

https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/23550/la-prononciation/liaisons/contextes-de-liaisons-facultatives

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[french frank]

My ancient Grevisse (§103, II, 3°) says that before un (adj. numéral) the liaison is not made [except when it is - ff] but in Après un rêve the un is not numeral but an indefinite article. I think in the present case "the French" may regard a liaison as 'correct' although everyday usage is not always correct.

If that makes sense.

[Roger Webb]

My ancient Grevisse (§103, II, 3°) says that before un (adj. numéral) the liaison is not made [except when it is - ff] but in Après un rêve the un is not numeral but an indefinite article. I think in the present case "the French" may regard a liaison as 'correct' although everyday usage is not always correct.

If that makes sense.

C'est la bouteille à l'encre!

[Ein Heldenleben]

This appears to be definitive but I just haven’t got the energy to read it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaison_(French)

To me Aprez un rêve sounds wrong …

[oliver sudden]

Well I just asked our French double bass player and he was quite clear that as far as he’s concerned there’s no liaison but he couldn’t say why not.

[french frank]

Well I just asked our French double bass player and he was quite clear that as far as he’s concerned there’s no liaison but he couldn’t say why not.

Bof! Where's the Académie française when you need it?

https://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9L0694

[gurnemanz]

I'm no expert at all but would use the liaison for "après un rêve", when referring to the song. You can find both:

with liaison/: https://forvo.com/word/apr%C3%A8s_un_r%C3%AAve/
without: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiMIm6QvrgA

This link to "après être", a similar case I'd have thought, has both pronunciations and the comment: 'The liaison between après and être is optional here, and tends to be omitted in colloquial speech. Liaising here sounds more elegant and more formal.'

[french frank]

'The liaison between après and être is optional here, and tends to be omitted in colloquial speech. Liaising here sounds more elegant and more formal.'

In a nutshell. Like most linguistic 'rules', you obey them if you think otherwise you'll be misunderstood. If it's clear what you mean either way, do as you please. Do you want to sound 'more elegant and more formal'? - you know what to do.

[vinteuil]

Bof! Where's the Académie française when you need it?

... the Académie française, Grevisse, Bescherelle are all very well, but I think it's probably time to get serious -

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-linguistics/article/abs/syntactic-bases-for-french-liaison/B1BB96BE3593B107A454EF74374391E9

[french frank]

... the Académie française, Grevisse, Bescherelle are all very well, but I think it's probably time to get serious -

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...54EF74374391E9

Mais enfin there are people, monsieur, people. They do what they want to do. Illogical, irrational, incorrect, provocative, against tradition, at ainsi de suite.

Mais enfin probably pronounced m'enfin.

[vinteuil]

Mais enfin there are people, monsieur, people. They do what they want to do. Illogical, irrational, incorrect, provocative, against tradition, at ainsi de suite.

Mais enfin probably pronounced m'enfin.

... in the immortal last words of the great pedant Claude Favre, seigneur de Vaugelas [1585 - 1650], on his death bed :

Je m'en vais ou je m'en vas. L'un et l'autre se dit ou se disent...



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[Roger Webb]

Speaking of French, why do some (yes Georgia) insist on 'Apray un rev' for Fauré's popular song, and not Aprayz?

I feel as if I should apologise for posting the above, as the arguments have raged without resolve for a day. It wasn't even my main criticism of EC (and particularly their treatment of French culture).

What led to my break with the programme was Georgia's insistence that the words of Vaughan Williams' song 'The sky above the roof' was written by Mabel Dearmer - a wonderful woman poet she told us. I was straight on the case and told her that the words used by VW were obviously just an almost word for word translation of Paul Verlaine's 'Le ciel est, par-dessus Le toit'. Georgia had, just the week before, been telling us what an interesting poet Verlaine was - but not interesting enough to have bothered reading one of his best known works!

After the song had finished she again praised the poet for her insight into loneliness - she had told us this is what it is about - no mention of prison at all!

[Sir Velo]

Well I just asked our French double bass player and he was quite clear that as far as he’s concerned there’s no liaison but he couldn’t say why not.

You asked a, let me get this straight, ...a double bass player?