Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Radio64]

Thanks to her visit to the Houses of Parliament we now know the title of Angela Merkel's doctoral thesis.

.
“Untersuchung des Mechanismus von Zerfallsreaktionen mit einfachem Bindungsbruch und Berechnung ihrer Geschwindigkeitskonstanten auf der Grundlage quantenchemischer und statistischer Methoden.”

Just sort of rolls of the tongue really. Or off the Zunge I should say.

[Serial_Apologist]

Just sort of rolls of the tongue really. Or off the Zunge I should say.

With pitches applied to the syllables it could make a nice theme for a neo-Bachian fugue.

[mangerton]

Here's one which has become all too common, and which I have just heard from Theresa Villier on R4:

"If it had have done......"

If the Queen's ministers can't speak the Queen's English, what chance for the rest of us?

[MrGongGong]

If the Queen's ministers can't speak the Queen's English, what chance for the rest of us?

It's not the "Queen's" English
and they don't belong to her

Interesting thing on R4 yesterday morning though about how before broadcasting RP didn't exist, along with the "Gladstone was a scouser" item!

[Radio64]

Interesting thing on R4 yesterday morning though about how before broadcasting RP didn't exist, along with the "Gladstone was a scouser" item!

Tut! you been forgoing R3's delightful morning programmes for ..the other lot?

[Pabmusic]

It's not the "Queen's" English
and they don't belong to her...

I agree with your first point. It's simply an idiom that's probably outdated.

I don't agree with your second point. Constitutionally, they are her ministers because it's her government. And presumably it will remain so whilst we have a constitutional monarchy.

[jean]

Interesting thing on R4 yesterday morning though about how before broadcasting RP didn't exist, along with the "Gladstone was a scouser" item!

Though when they played a recording of him, it was clear that he wasn't - in part because the accent probably wouldn't have emerged until after Gladstone's time.

[jean]

"If it had have done......"

That's another example of copying the rhythm of a different contruction which has a different grammar.

The speaker has a memory of sentences like he would have done.

But don't worry - soon the metamorphosis of that construction into he would of done will be complete and the of can be reclassified as a meaningless particle rather than the preposition it has been hitherto, and the new construction if it had of done will be capable of analysis.

[ahinton]

I agree with your first point. It's simply an idiom that's probably outdated.

I don't agree with your second point. Constitutionally, they are her ministers because it's her government. And presumably it will remain so whilst we have a constitutional monarchy.

That's correct on both counts. I recall years ago an Aberdonian railing against the use of the term "the Queen's English" on the grounds of his view that, in his homw town, most people speak English better than the Queen does.

[mercia]

"If it had have done......"

I think I sometimes say "if it had've done" (perhaps to avoid the non-existent word hadone ? )

[Pabmusic]

That's correct on both counts. I recall years ago an Aberdonian railing against the use of the term "the Queen's English" on the grounds of his view that, in his homw town, most people speak English better than the Queen does.

I've had a similar comment from a Scot (Edinburgh) who lived for several years in Inverness.

[jean]

I think I sometimes say "if it had've done" (perhaps to avoid the non-existent word hadone ? )

English is unusual in requiring different verb forms for the protasis and apodosis of a conditional sentence. In Latin, and the few modern European languages I know, the same construction is used.

But we're supposed to say If you had done this, I would have done that.

This can become (for the sake of what the speaker feels is balance) If you would have done this, I would have done that, contracted to If you'd have done this, I'd have done that.

Then we find the first clause expanded again, wrongly, to If you had have done this...

[Bryn]

English is unusual in requiring different verb forms for the protasis and apodosis of a conditional sentence. In Latin, and the few modern European languages I know, the same construction is used.

But we're supposed to say If you had done this, I would have done that.

This can become (for the sake of what the speaker feels is balance) If you would have done this, I would have done that, contracted to If you'd have done this, I'd have done that.

Them we find the first clause expanded again, wrongly, to If you had have done this...

Them's fine explanations.

[jean]

On the subject of conditionals, I noticed an interesting example of hypercorrection on the Musicians' names thread.

There was a link to an article about how Leonard Bernstein came to change the pronunciation of his nale. The writer says:

If a Bernstein such as Leonard were now a cultural icon in this country, he seemed to feel, then such a person should somehow be more closely associated in people's minds with European cultural icons.

But that's not an unreal condition; the if means something like given that, and the subjunctive is inappropriate.

[jean]

Them's fine explanations.

Damn. You spotted that before I did.