Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Serial_Apologist]

Spelling in English is sometimes illogical as GBS highlighted in his proposed spelling of GHOTI (fish). He explained for those not familiar with his 'new phonetics' thus: F from enough; I from women; SH from station.

Or even "hwen", hwich is often insisted on as correct pronunciation!

[french frank]

Or even "hwen", hwich is often insisted on as correct pronunciation!

Is there a sort of simultaneity in the pronunciation of the w and h - w-hhich, mispronounced as hh-wich? Just as Wednesday requires the pronunciation of the consonantal group -dns-, and Dvořák the groups Dv- and -zr- ? Not invented here so difficult, like the much easier Welsh ll (pronounced as simultaneous hl-).

[Roger Webb]

Or even "hwen", hwich is often insisted on as correct pronunciation!

Hwhat has that to do hwith GHOTI?

[french frank]

Hwhat has that to do hwith GHOTI?

Price of?

[Roger Webb]

Price of?

Hwhiting's cheap and versatile.

[LMcD]

Well we’ve just had a CANdide on Radio Three with Can as in tin can . It should be Condide with Con pronounced the French way . The whole point of his name is that Con is the French word for idiot as well as a few ruder things.

I found a clip of Leonard Bernstein introducing his overture CANdide. I can't imagine he wasn't aware of the 'authentic' French way of pronouncing but, hey, it was his operetta so I guess he was entitled, if anyone was, to pronounce it that way.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I found a clip of Leonard Bernstein introducing his overture CANdide. I can't imagine he wasn't aware of the 'authentic' French way of pronouncing but, hey, it was his operetta so I guess he was entitled, if anyone was, to pronounce it that way.

I don’t know whether Lenny spoke French but he was certainly a master wordsmith. Having had French lessons in an American school I suspect that it’s perfectly possible that he wasn’t aware of the correct pronunciation. . Even in the sixties five times as many kids were doing Spanish than doing French. But then most English people can’t be bothered to pronounce French words correctly can they ? So let’s not criticise the Americans.
I’ve often suspected that some overly fastidious English try to avoid saying con on the false assumption that it’s as offensive in French as one of the word’s cruder English translations is in our language.

[Roger Webb]

I don’t know whether Lenny spoke French but he was certainly a master wordsmith. Having had French lessons in an American school I suspect that it’s perfectly possible that he wasn’t aware of the correct pronunciation. . Even in the sixties five times as many kids were doing Spanish than doing French. But then most English people can’t be bothered to pronounce French words correctly can they ? So let’s not criticise the Americans.
I’ve often suspected that some overly fastidious English try to avoid saying con on the false assumption that it’s as offensive in French as one of the word’s cruder English translations is in our language.

Speaking of French, why do some (yes Georgia) insist on 'Apray un rev' for Fauré's popular song, and not Aprayz?

[oliver sudden]

Speaking of French, why do some (yes Georgia) insist on 'Apray un rev' for Fauré's popular song, and not Aprayz?

Les Liaisons dangereuses…if in doubt I’ll always leave such a consonant unspoken. (Yes yes yes, if I know I have to say it on the radio of course I’ll ask a friend.)

(I will, though, stick my head above the parapet now and timidly mention that as far as I know the can of Candide is quite different from the con of, er, con. And as has been mentioned it’s not remotely as offensive as the related English c-word.)

[Roger Webb]

(I will, though, stick my head above the parapet now and timidly mention that as far as I know the can of Candide is quite different from the con of, er, con. And as has been mentioned it’s not remotely as offensive as the related English c-word.)

It's said that if touring Normandy be careful how you ask for directions to the city of Caen.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Speaking of French, why do some (yes Georgia) insist on 'Apray un rev' for Fauré's popular song, and not Aprayz?

Apray is langue d’oïl and (I think ) Apres (sounding the s ) is langue d’oc maybe ?
Where we used to holiday in the Dordogne bread was always pronounce pen not pain (pronounced pan with a short n ) which is the standard “Northern” French. Oui was way with a very short ay sound not wee as in Paris . Could never work out why it was not pronounced Oc - even much further south in Arles this year I never heard it pronounced that way.

Just googled a YouTube guide which I can’t copy and the Frenchman there says Apray.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Les Liaisons dangereuses…if in doubt I’ll always leave such a consonant unspoken. (Yes yes yes, if I know I have to say it on the radio of course I’ll ask a friend.)

(I will, though, stick my head above the parapet now and timidly mention that as far as I know the can of Candide is quite different from the con of, er, con. And as has been mentioned it’s not remotely as offensive as the related English c-word.)

The Con theory was one I got from a very well educated French teacher. The other was the derivation of Cunegonde which he was much more reluctant to expand on . You are right the essential meaning of Candide is pure , white and hence innocent.
Checked on a YouTube guide and the Frenchman on that not only says Con the french way he massively sounds the e at the end . Con - deed - er . Probably over the top for English circles that final e - marks you out as a suspect intellectual.

[Roger Webb]

Apray is langue d’oïl and (I think ) Apres (sounding the s ) is langue d’oc maybe ?
Where we used to holiday in the Dordogne bread was always pronounce pen not pain (pronounced pan with a short n ) which is the standard “Northern” French. Oui was way with a very short ay sound not wee as in Paris . Could never work out why it was not pronounced Oc - even much further south in Arles this year I never heard it pronounced that way.

Just googled a YouTube guide which I can’t copy and the Frenchman there says Apray.

Here's another from you tube....this one a tutorial on on how to pronounce all of the words of that lovely (but perhaps over-played) song.

I reiterate what Oscar Wilde said about the French: 10 out of 10 for pronunciation, 2 out of 10 for spelling.

https://youtu.be/b78-3eenvxA?si=mLH1Qt5Szy3EFVOJ

[vinteuil]

... Littré he say :

Après / a-prê. L' s se lie : après un an, dites a-prê-z un an

I always felt that if there was a difference of opinion as the pronouncing of an s, the tendency in the south would be to pronounce and in the north to leave it silent -

moins, Aubenas, Privas, Chenas, Julienas

But I defer here to the pertick'ler knowledge of French Frank in sich matters....

[Sir Velo]

Surely the whole point about whether the "s" is spoken or silent is whether it is followed by a vowel or another consonant. Hence, one would say "Aprez un reve" but not "Aprez day-joo-nay"