Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[LezLee]

'Earnt' dives me mad! There's no logical reason for it. 'Learnt' is to differentiate it from 'learn-ed' - a different meaning. 'Earned' has only one meaning.

[Bryn]

'Earnt' dives me mad! There's no logical reason for it. 'Learnt' is to differentiate it from 'learn-ed' - a different meaning. 'Earned' has only one meaning.

What the Dickens are you on about. It was good enough for that Charlie. Otherwise, however, it is pretty much an American aberration.

[french frank]

Otherwise, however, it is pretty much an American aberration.

And where does the increasingly frequent 'lead' (as the past tense of 'to lead') come from? Other than an aberrant analogy with 'to read/read' and the homophone lead=plumbum.

[gurnemanz]

'Earnt' dives me mad! There's no logical reason for it. 'Learnt' is to differentiate it from 'learn-ed' - a different meaning. 'Earned' has only one meaning.

On the contrary, I take pleasure in those verbs where you have a choice between between the t or ed past participle. Similar cases occur with learn, spell, burn, dream, smell. Surely not relevant to apply logic to linguistic morphology. I was a language teacher in my working life and these regularities and anomalies were bread and butter to me and a source of ongoing curiosity. See Steven Pinker "Words and Rules" - an illuminating study of irregular verbs - perhaps admittedly a niche area of interest.

I think I say "earnt" mostly but "earned" may well pass my lips.

[french frank]

On the contrary, I take pleasure in those verbs where you have a choice between between the t or ed past participle. Similar cases occur with learn, spell, burn, dream, smell. Surely not relevant to apply logic to linguistic morphology. I was a language teacher in my working life and these regularities and anomalies were bread and butter to me and a source of ongoing curiosity. See Steven Pinker "Words and Rules" - an illuminating study of irregular verbs - perhaps admittedly a niche area of interest.

I think I say "earnt" mostly but "earned" may well pass my lips.

I think the dental nasal n makes the difference between earnt/earned, burnt/burned, learnt/learned negligible when spoken, whereas spelt/spelled and smelt/smelled do need a little more effort to differentiate. Is that true? And dreamed/dreamt are genuine alternatives.

[Padraig]

On the contrary, I take pleasure in those verbs where you have a choice between between the t or ed past participle. Similar cases occur with learn, spell, burn, dream, smell. Surely not relevant to apply logic to linguistic morphology. I was a language teacher in my working life and these regularities and anomalies were bread and butter to me and a source of ongoing curiosity. See Steven Pinker "Words and Rules" - an illuminating study of irregular verbs - perhaps admittedly a niche area of interest.

A learned reply, g.

[LezLee]

'Red sky at night, shepherds' delight' really irritates me. In Liverpool (and maybe other ports), it was always 'Sailors' delight'. Caused many an argument when I moved to Sheffield.

[Pulcinella]

I think the saying is traditionally shepherd's not shepherds'

Or maybe sailors with no apostrophe (so delight is a verb form), though this article uses both sailors and sailors'.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-scientific-valid/

[cloughie]

'Red sky at night, shepherds' delight' really irritates me. In Liverpool (and maybe other ports), it was always 'Sailors' delight'. Caused many an argument when I moved to Sheffield.

Probably because Sheffield is closer to the moors where sheep roam than it is to the sea. As a native of South Yorkshire it was always shepherds!

[cloughie]

I think the saying is traditionally shepherd's not shepherds'

That’s splitting hairs a little - as there may well be more than one shepherd!

[french frank]

Or maybe sailors with no apostrophe (so delight is a verb form), though this article uses both sailors and sailors'.

Met Office has shepherd's and sailor's. Being a rural child, I learnt 'shepherd's'. Either way, it seems to be true, in the UK at least.

[Pulcinella]

Met Office has shepherd's and sailor's. Being a rural child, I learnt 'shepherd's'. Either way, it seems to be true, in the UK at least.

They too, however, give plural sailors their say (or an imperative exhortation!):


The concept of "Red sky at night, shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning" first appears in the Bible in the book of Matthew. It is an old weather saying often used at sunrise and sunset to signify the changing sky and was originally known to help the shepherds prepare for the next day's weather.

Despite there being global variations in this saying such as "Red sky at night, sailors delight. Red sky in morning, sailors warning", the scientific understanding behind such occurrences remains the same.

[Serial_Apologist]

They too, however, give plural sailors their say (or an imperative exhortation!):


The concept of "Red sky at night, shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning" first appears in the Bible in the book of Matthew. It is an old weather saying often used at sunrise and sunset to signify the changing sky and was originally known to help the shepherds prepare for the next day's weather.

Despite there being global variations in this saying such as "Red sky at night, sailors delight. Red sky in morning, sailors warning", the scientific understanding behind such occurrences remains the same.

The saying is only useful if the weather is incoming from the west - which used to be generally true in both the temperate zones until global warming really got underway - since the brightest sunrises and sunsets are dependent on advancing or retreating high and middle level clouds associated with unsettled weather systems. A clear red sunset indicates cloud is clearing to the west as the day's bad weather moves off to the east, whereas a bright red sunrise is reflecting onto thickening cloud advancing from behind as you gaze at the beautiful sky to the east while yawning and stretching your arms to welcome the new day. Weather systems advancing from north and south confuse the picture somewhat; and in the tropics bad weather systems often approach from the east, so the "rule" can't apply there.

[LMcD]

Government minister Edward Argar said that, as leaving lockdown was more difficult than entering it, government messages would inevitably have to be more 'nuanced' - I take it that's politicospeak for 'confusing'.

[french frank]

The concept of "Red sky at night, shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning" first appears in the Bible in the book of Matthew.

The concept is mentioned rather than the shepherds or sailors:

When it is evening, ye say, It will be
fair weather: for the sky is red.

And in the morning, It will be foul
weather to day: for the sky is red and
lowring.