Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[teamsaint]

You're referring to the 'bare bones' of a performance of the Tallis Lamentations?

I could not and cannot understand who might have been offended by that.

Actually there was more to it than that, ( I think it was "Flesh flayed from the bleached bones"). There's no real up side to flesh flaying, is there ?

And there are just better, less potentially offensive ways of saying things.

[jean]

Neither is there to the position of Catholics in England in the period when the Lamentations were composed - that was the point, surely?

Not every image has to have an 'up side'; not every piece of music is appropriately performed in a relentlessly optimistic way.

[teamsaint]

Neither is there to the position of Catholics in England in the period when the Lamentations were composed - that was the point, surely?

Not every image has to have an 'up side'; not every piece of music is appropriately performed in a relentlessly optimistic way.

But there is a difference between portraying a situation, and a use of imagery in a critical piece.

The use of that phrase was to describe the way in which a particular performace was done, and not to describe the political/religious situation.
If you think that using those words to describe a particular way that the music was perfomed, ( which was what she was doing) is ok, then fine. I don't think it was appropriate.

( It brought to mind for me that horrible whipping scene in "12 years a Slave", FWIW.)

[Lat-Literal]

... and as for people who don't like metaphor and imagery - well, hanging's too good for them.



.

Head's will roll, hanging's too good for them, off with his head......that sort of phrase is historical in connotation and, almost with irony, it involves the use of a heavy metaphor to lighten angry emotion in a way that can be commonly understood, ie such things do not happen now. That is not the same as "decapitate" in an era where decapitation is an emotive aspect of terrorism or even the use of intimidating-in-the-name-of-common-good militaristic/revolutionary metaphor for canvassers as in "footsoldiers". Some of it is conscious or close to conscious, just as hard nosed business types will deliberately pepper their speech with "thrust", "drive forward" etc. Most don't analyse in this way but will pick up on its impact.

This is not far removed from being the speech equivalent to visual gun imagery in westerns versus all the gun imagery in rap.

One is harmless fantasy for being unreal in today's world. The other is not for depicting the real as fantasy in a goading sense.

[jean]

The use of that phrase was to describe the way in which a particular performace was done, and not to describe the political/religious situation.

The point was that the performance itself could be seen as making reference to the 'political/religious situation' prevailing at the time when it was written.

[jean]

Head's will roll, hanging's too good for them, off with his head......that sort of phrase is historical in connotation and, almost with irony, it involves the use of a heavy metaphor to lighten angry emotion in a way that can be commonly understood, ie such things do not happen now. That is not the same as "decapitate" in an era where decapitation is an emotive aspect of terrorism or even the use of intimidating-in-the-name-of-common-good militaristic/revolutionary metaphor for canvassers as in "footsoldiers". Some of it is conscious or close to conscious, just as hard nosed business types will deliberately pepper their sppech with "thrust", "drive forward" etc.

Excellent points, Lat.

You've pinpointed why the decapitation metaphor could seem particularly uncomfortable.

More generally, it's the non-serious nature of these metaphors that makes them questionable - that's not the case with the Tallis Lamentations one, which was very serious indeed.

[teamsaint]

The point was that the performance itself could be seen as making reference to the 'political/religious situation' prevailing at the time when it was written.

Well that may be the case, but there are any number of ways of describing a performance, which is what was going on. In a prepared piece, as this was, choice of words is calculated. I thought it poorly judged phrase, as was some of the other language use in that BaL.

The reviewer wasn't enlightening us about the situation of catholics, ( and if she had been, perhaps it would have been justified), she was describing a performance.

[Lat-Literal]

Excellent points, Lat.

You've pinpointed why the decapitation metaphor could seem particularly uncomfortable.

More generally, it's the non-serious nature of these metaphors that makes them questionable - that's not the case with the Tallis Lamentations one, which was very serious indeed.

Thank you.

The Queen in Blackadder says "off with his head" to comic effect in a historical context.

In mid 1994, the Cornish indie band The Family Cat - young, not to be taken too seriously, here today and gone tomorrow - released the single "Bring Me The Head of Michael Portillo". Blackadder may well have been televised at that time. The record with its oblique and not very meaningful lyrics including "bring me the head of the head of light entertainment" and "bring me the head of another right winger" had an unusually serious air for them musically. It was something of a lament about politics and culture then on behalf of the likes of single mothers, forlorn and typically offbeat rather than aggressive with a bit of controversial cheek that would have been "got" by its teenage college audience. The record sales were minute given its fringe appeal. What everyone knew was that the very idea of beheadings at that time was out of the ark. I never felt that it should have been banned but I think it was banned.

Violent intent even at a subconscious personal profit making level is different and generally recognisable. But nobody I spoke with thought of me as anything but quaint for disliking intensely the Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up" and Britney Spears's "Hit Me Baby One More Time", both number one records and neither banned, with the latter when introduced often being disingenuously shortened to "One More Time". It could have been excused along the lines of a musical "hit it to me" if she hadn't been dressed up like a schoolgirl fantasy for men. I do see the grey lines. That idea that literal interpretation can be taken a bit too far and in the case of the former it was controversy for the sake of a fun party. I still don't like it much.

[jean]

But nobody I spoke with thought of me as anything but quaint for disliking intensely the Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up" and Britney Spears's "Hit Me Baby One More Time", both number one records and neither banned, with the latter when introduced often being disingenuously shortened to "One More Time"...

You didn't talkl to ME!!!

[Lat-Literal]

You didn't talkl to ME!!!

I will tell you another tell tale sign.

It is when these things can be justified as benign as in Johnson's political support is to be decapitated rather than him per se; the footsoldiers are not much different from a purposeful and spirited, political Salvation Army; smack is a drug reference as well as an actual smack; and, as indicated earlier, hit which also happens to be a drug reference is all about the hit of music. I think it is the deceit in the mixed messages of that sort of language which annoys me. It's blatant nastiness which is presented in a way which is very hard to prove. In fact, it is impossible to convey the significance of tone to those who don't get tone. "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick" was mainly wry and clever as Ian Dury was at his best if not at his worst.

[doversoul1]

I thought the flesh and bone description was really quite ugh-ish. I think the problem here was the fact that the reviewer pulled the idiom (bare bone) back to the actual thing and expanded it; a bit like saying ‘killing a blue tit and a robin with one stone’. The effect was like explaining a joke; it lost the point or changed the effect in this case. To some listeners at least.

[jean]

I would rather people didn’t keep using ‘alibi’ when they mean ‘excuse’.

[jean]

As distasteful metaphors go, UKIP comparing itself to the Black Death would be hard to beat.

[Nick Armstrong]

"Traversal" (to mean performance of a piece of music) seems to have joined "curated" in the list of teeth-grating R3 words...

[Serial_Apologist]

As distasteful metaphors go, UKIP comparing itself to the Black Death would be hard to beat.

I must admit though, I did burst out laughing the moment I heard it!