Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[burning dog]

Whatever might be 'Richard's point' my dictionary's definition of 'apolitical' is ... 'not interested or involved in politics'.

That's it! I know some very strange people like that even in my own family.

Worse, I even know some people who are not in the slightest interested in football or 'classical' music.

...but while I know people who have no interest in football as in " Remind me. What do they call the bloke with gloves who stands in front of goal?" or classical music "What do they call that woman standing in front of the band waving a stick?" the self styled "apolitical" are always sounding off about house prices, interest rates, tax, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, tuition fees for their children etc.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

...but while I know people who have no interest in football as in " Remind me. What do they call the bloke with gloves who stands in front of goal?" or classical music "What do they call that woman standing in front of the band waving a stick?" the self styled "apolitical" are always sounding off about house prices, interest rates, tax, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, tuition fees for their children etc.

- that is the point entirely.

[ahinton]

Whatever might be 'Richard's point' my dictionary's definition of 'apolitical' is ... 'not interested or involved in politics'.

But, as ff asked, is the attempted adoption of such a position a political act in itself? Moreover, the notion that there are people so uninterested and uninvolved in so very many aspects of life that they accordingly believe themselves to be apolitical is about as untenable as that which prompts certain people to believe that they are tone deaf (whatever that means); in other words, you should first use your dictionary to ascertain what can and might be regarded as political before deciding whether and to what extent it is possible for anyone to be totally uninterested and uninvolved in any and all aspects of politics.

[P. G. Tipps]

...but while I know people who have no interest in football as in " Remind me. What do they call the bloke with gloves who stands in front of goal?" or classical music "What do they call that woman standing in front of the band waving a stick?" the self styled "apolitical" are always sounding off about house prices, interest rates, tax, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, tuition fees for their children etc.

So when somebody tells me ... as they have done on quite a few occasions ... that they never bother to vote because they are simply not interested in politics, that must be untrue?

'Apolitical' simply denotes 'lack of interest and activity' in politics. It does not make judgements on what might affect people whether they realise it or not!

Because you and I might have that realisation doesn't mean we then simply say that those who don't must be lying.

Convinced atheists sometimes curse God ... does that mean that they are not really atheists but theists?

[ahinton]

So when somebody tells me ... as they have done on quite a few occasions ... that they never bother to vote because they are simply not interested in politics, that must be untrue?

Whilst the truth or otherwise of such statements will likely vary from one person to another who makes them, it is perfectly possible that those who don't bother to vote are either too lazy to do so or are unconvinced by any of the available candidates or party manifestos or don't trust any of the available candidates to support their party manifestos or all manner of other equally viable reasons.

'Apolitical' simply denotes 'lack of interest and activity' in politics. It does not make judgements on what might affect people whether they realise it or not!

Whether or not it might be a judgemental term or regarded as such is not the point; even those who claim to have little or no interest or involvement in party politics would for the most part be unable to justify a claim to having little or no interest or involvement in politics per se.

Convinced atheists sometimes curse God ... does that mean that they are not really atheists but theists?

It could certainly suggest either "that they are not really atheists" or that they accept that others are theists, however misguided they might think them to be in that regard; that said, I've never actually heard "convinced atheists" cursing God (perhaps I should get out more)...

[P. G. Tipps]

But, as ff asked, is the attempted adoption of such a position a political act in itself?

No, that is pure sophistry, I'm afraid, ahinton.

If people say they have no interest in politics, I believe them, even though politics might affect their daily lives.

If others tell me they have no interest in the survival of banana-growing even though they may have one every day for breakfast, I believe them as well.

Have you never met people like that, ahinton ... ?

[vinteuil]

'Apolitical' simply denotes 'lack of interest and activity' in politics. It does not make judgements on what might affect people whether they realise it or not!
Because you and I might have that realisation doesn't mean we then simply say that those who don't must be lying.

... not 'lying', but labouring under a misapprehension.

Rather like M Jourdain who was startled to discover that for the previous forty years he had been speaking in prose without knowing it, these 'a-political' people will have been making political decisions and holding political views all their lives whether they know it or not.


.

[Lat-Literal]

...but while I know people who have no interest in football as in " Remind me. What do they call the bloke with gloves who stands in front of goal?" or classical music "What do they call that woman standing in front of the band waving a stick?" the self styled "apolitical" are always sounding off about house prices, interest rates, tax, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, tuition fees for their children etc.

Perhaps I ought to refine what I said then.

I sound off against some changes others have made or now propose. To that extent, I've joined the rest of the country.

But being political had always meant to me having a distinctive positive vision.

And if that mainly combines elements of the 1950s and the 1960s which are never going to return, then the latter has been my principal discovery in this decade.

That my "political outlook" isn't politics but rather history.

[Lat-Literal]

To be frank, I just happen to think that if you combine the best parts of the 1950s and the 1960s you get the right sort of conservatism, the right sort of socialism and mainly the right sort of liberalism (although there have been some improvements since re the latter and other things that are not improvements). That, for what it was worth, was my political vision thang, erm, "going forward" from the late 1970s and it was near the centre of my personal identity. But it was always disappearing into the ether whereas now it is all simply firefighting apolitically to the extent that I or anyone can ever be bothered. I have just returned from the home of the "Chair" of the local residents association and am working with her on modest practicalities in defence of our neighbourhood. This is more political in practice than I've ever been but I am in no doubt at all it is unequivocally apolitical compared with me in the past.

[ahinton]

No, that is pure sophistry, I'm afraid, ahinton.

On what specific grounds?

If people say they have no interest in politics, I believe them, even though politics might affect their daily lives.

Whether or not or to what extent you might believe them makes no difference to the fact(s) of the matter. In any case, you did not speak of people who "say they have no interest in politics"; you mentioned those who say that they have neither interest nor involvement in that subject, which is quite another matter. It is not possible to be wholly uninvolved in politics (by which I should perhaps clarify to you once again that I not only mean party politics) unless one lives in an entirely isolated situation with the barest minimum of communication with anyone.

If others tell me they have no interest in the survival of banana-growing even though they may have one every day for breakfast, I believe them as well.

Methinks that thou believeth too much (or have at least put yourself at risk of so doing)...

Have you never met people like that, ahinton ... ?

I've certainly not met anyone who views the subject of politics and people's interest and involvement therewith quite as you do!

[ahinton]

[duplicate: deleted]

[P. G. Tipps]

I've certainly not met anyone who views the subject of politics and people's interest and involvement therewith quite as you do!

Funny, I have often had very much the same experience ...

[french frank]

these 'a-political' people will have been making political decisions and holding political views all their lives whether they know it or not.

This is where one comes to the precise meaning of 'political'. I imagine there are people who would declare themselves 'apolitical', simply regarding their decisions and views in a personal light. Wouldn't 'political' necessarily entail regarding them in a wider context? Simply making a decision because it seems most advantageous to oneself alone, and not being concerned what anyone else decides or is in a position to decide, or in justice should be in a position to decide, seems a very weak meaning of 'political'. In fact, 'selfish' is surely the very opposite of what 'political' means, at least in its original meaning. It even gets back to the idea of the 'idiot' - recently discussed. I would submit

[Serial_Apologist]

This is where one comes to the precise meaning of 'political'. I imagine there are people who would declare themselves 'apolitical', simply regarding their decisions and views in a personal light. Wouldn't 'political' necessarily entail regarding them in a wider context? Simply making a decision because it seems most advantageous to oneself alone, and not being concerned what anyone else decides or is in a position to decide, or in justice should be in a position to decide, seems a very weak meaning of 'political'. In fact, 'selfish' is surely the very opposite of what 'political' means, at least in its original meaning. It even gets back to the idea of the 'idiot' - recently discussed. I would submit

Well politics is about the deployment of power in society, isn't it? My guess is that anyone claiming to be apolitical is most probably not apolitical, but opposed to how politics is conducted, and for whatever reason has not worked out why they are dissatisfied.

[french frank]

Well politics is about the deployment of power in society, isn't it? My guess is that anyone claiming to be apolitical is most probably not apolitical, but opposed to how politics is conducted, and for whatever reason has not worked out why they are dissatisfied.

OED

Detached from, not interested in or concerned with, political issues or activities.

1952 M. McCarthy Groves of Academe (1953) iii. 49 You are not political. You are a-political.
1958 Times Lit. Suppl. 28 Nov. 689/4 By an apolitical attitude I meant the attitude of the heroes of Hurry On Down or Lucky Jim, for instance; the attitude which Mr. Priestley once described as one of ‘opting out’.
1960 Guardian 12 Apr. 8/3 Comparatively a-political young people may be quite willing to join a Young Conservative club for the sake of its social activities.

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