Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[jean]

...rain doesn't grow plants.

What's happened is that an intransitive verb has acquired a transitive application.

It's quite a common development. Would you object to people walking their dogs, say?

[ahinton]

Slag - for which I'm not aware of a male equivalent.

Is this thread descending a slippery slope?...

[ahinton]

What's happened is that an intransitive verb has aquired a transitive application.

It happens. Would you object to people walking their dogs, say?

Not if they're on leads the while (the dogs, that is).

[Lat-Literal]

What's happened is that an intransitive verb has acquired a transitive application.
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It's quite a common development. Would you object to people walking their dogs, say?

Actually, there is more than one issue because I accept that the context for the first is generally "We'll grow the economy". The second issue is that any personal responsibility to "grow" is traditionally in relation to specific things - probably mainly plants and animals. I don't think I've "grown" my CD collection but my CD collection has grown because of me.

In a roundabout way, that partially answers your question, although I'm still seeking clarity here. For example, if I had a puppy and fed it so that it became a healthy dog, I wouldn't claim that I had "grown" the animal. But it is just possible that farmers would talk about "growing" their cattle so I don't know what the rules are supposed to be, if they exist at all.

I'm going on the basis of what sounds right and wrong or fully established and an unthinking trend. What concerns me is that "grow" may be growing for no other reason than it's meaning suggests it is partly about proliferation. A link between its meaning and an impulse to use it more would derive from a lazy connection between the two and it's spreading.

[Richard Barrett]

I don't think I've "grown" my CD collection

So "grow" is here standing in for "cause to grow". It couldn't really be confused with anything else. I used to bristle a bit to read about people "protesting something" instead of "protesting against something", but in the end the "against" is really implicit in the "protest" so why not just leave it out? This thread has actually made me think about a few such things, as a result of which I think I've become more accepting of changes in the language (for example "Americanisms") than I used to be. My blood pressure has no doubt benefited accordingly.

[Lat-Literal]

So "grow" is here standing in for "cause to grow". It couldn't really be confused with anything else. I used to bristle a bit to read about people "protesting something" instead of "protesting against something", but in the end the "against" is really implicit in the "protest" so why not just leave it out? This thread has actually made me think about a few such things, as a result of which I think I've become more accepting of changes in the language (for example "Americanisms") than I used to be. My blood pressure has no doubt benefited accordingly.

Yes. Cause and effect are involved but to say "cause to grow" is still to place the "growth" last. It seems to me less clumsy - and more conventional - to present growing as a consequence. S-A was also looking to place cause first. He suggested alternative words for "grow" which were reasonable enough although in the weather example cited I might have chosen "lead to". Jean asks about "walking the dog". Well, one does walk a dog. Is that really the same sort of thing? As for "protesting against"I understand your comment but that again seems different to me. Mostly, I don't like Americanisms but I am prepared to put up with some of them if the origins are clear. They can be categorized as foibles.

What I can't stand at any price is the "cloud cuckoo land", "he would say that, wouldn't he" and most recently the ludicrous "so" which has replaced "erm" before any answer to a question. If it is supposed to convey certainty, I'm not convinced. It's the sheep like affliction among the professional classes at any given point before they drop the thing they all suddenly decided to use for something equally unnecessary. I have found my blood pressure levels are not linked to stress but my heart rate alters dramatically because of it.

[jean]

...Jean asks about "walking the dog". Well, one does walk a dog. Is that really the same sort of thing?...

Yes. They're both examples of an intransitive verb becoming optionally transitive too.

[Richard Barrett]

"cloud cuckoo land"

You're aware that this originates with Aristophanes (Νεφελοκοκκυγία), right?

[Lat-Literal]

Yes. They're both examples of an intransitive verb becoming optionally transitive too.

But not both examples of traditional usage and clear meaning.

You're aware that this originates with Aristophanes (Νεφελοκοκκυγία), right?

No.

But does that matter when, as was the case in the last couple of decades, I heard it used a hundred or more times by Michael Howard and a thousand times by other politicians?

[jean]

Only because one is more established than the other.

[ahinton]

But not both examples of traditional usage and clear meaning.


No.

But does that matter when, as was the case in the last couple of decades, I heard it used a hundred or more times by Michael Howard and a thousand times by other politicians?

That's more than enough to have an adverse effect upon blood pressure, heart rate and who knows what else!

[jean]

... "he would say that, wouldn't he"...

And that one originates with Mandy Rice-Davies, and has an abbreviation all of its own, which you might prefer!

[Lat-Literal]

Only because one is more established than the other.

Yes - thankfully.

And that one originates with Mandy Rice-Davies, and has an abbreviation all of its own, which you might prefer!

Yes - I do prefer the abbreviation which is new to me.

It is more "It" although points are deducted for its faint connotations with the "U and Non-U" phenomenon.

My eight rose bushes have just arrived but I would be interested to see any additional comments later today.

For the earth - but packaged in such a way on their arrival that I am growing flower pots.

[ahinton]

And that one originates with Mandy Rice-Davies, and has an abbreviation all of its own, which you might prefer!

Bit like MRSA, no?

[french frank]

Yes. They're both examples of an intransitive verb becoming optionally transitive too.

Transitive use of 'to grow' ('cause to increase, enlarge') seems to be a reborn obsolete form, according to the OED:

1481 Caxton tr. Siege & Conqueste Jerusalem (1893) clxix. 250 Whan dauid had regned vii. yere in Ebron he grewe [Fr. creut] and amended moche this cyte [Jerusalem].

The BBC (among others) uses it as: 'to grow an audience'. Does that have perhaps an implicit idea of 'tending, fostering'?