Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

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  • P. G. Tipps
    Full Member
    • Jun 2014
    • 2978

    I'm not at all persuaded by the Americanism-Apologists who simply respond by suggesting The Unpersuaded are just a bunch of reactionary stuffed shirts who are against the further development of the English language. What an absurd misapprehension!

    There are plenty of welcome foreign additions to our language which are meaningful and now well-established such as, say, 'a la carte' and 'angst'. Such words serve a useful purpose and add an undoubted richness to the language.

    The now regular adoption of Americanisms, to often replace perfectly adequate and already widely-used English alternatives, are of a quite different order. It appears the only reason that such words and phrases are introduced is because these are American. For example, replacing 'to get a grip of'' with the strange-sounding 'to get a handle on' is a clear impoverishment of the language not an enrichment, surely.

    It's time to get real you guys at the BBC ...

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    • Richard Barrett
      Guest
      • Jan 2016
      • 6259

      Originally posted by P. G. Tipps View Post
      The now regular adoption of Americanisms, to often replace perfectly adequate and already widely-used English alternatives, are of a quite different order. It appears the only reason that such words and phrases are introduced is because these are American.
      They don't replace anything, they supplement things, just as did the admixture of French to Anglo-Saxon back in the day so that English has a larger vocabulary with more subtly-different almost-synonyms than any other current language. Long may that continue. Anyway, no amount of Bufton-Tuftonism is going to stop it from happening!

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      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 29881

        Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
        They don't replace anything, they supplement things, just as did the admixture of French to Anglo-Saxon back in the day
        And Norse … of course they did all invade us and defeat us in battle: we were a subject race Oh, wait …

        All one can do, individually, is use these Americanisms or not use them.
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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        • Bryn
          Banned
          • Mar 2007
          • 24688

          Originally posted by french frank View Post
          And Norse … of course they did all invade us and defeat us in battle: we were a subject race Oh, wait …
          "Oh, wait ... " indeed. I for one like to think of myself as coming from a long line of invaders (of this island, that is, rather than of other lands).

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          • Richard Barrett
            Guest
            • Jan 2016
            • 6259

            Originally posted by french frank View Post
            All one can do, individually, is use these Americanisms or not use them.
            "Oh, wait" used sarcastically is somewhat transatlantic in tone, isn't it?

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            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 29881

              Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
              "Oh, wait" used sarcastically is somewhat transatlantic in tone, isn't it?
              And why not? I don't in any general sense object to language evolving in the way language has always evolved. I would use phrases that seem useful to me and others should do the same. The psycholinguistics behind indiividual usage is still of interest.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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              • gurnemanz
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7354

                Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                They don't replace anything, they supplement things, just as did the admixture of French to Anglo-Saxon back in the day so that English has a larger vocabulary with more subtly-different almost-synonyms than any other current language. Long may that continue. Anyway, no amount of Bufton-Tuftonism is going to stop it from happening!
                Well put! Also, the acquisition by an individual speaker of a new mode of speech, whether vocabulary, syntax or pronunciation, is likely to be an unconscious process. I would therefore disagree with PG Tipps above who wrote: "It appears the only reason that such words and phrases are introduced is because these are American." Mostly, people are unaware of what they are doing in this respect and choose the language they use instinctively based on its usefulness in expressing the meaning they wish to communicate.

                Many years ago I taught English at a German university and as a resident native speaker of English I would often be asked to give a ruling on usage. One day the professor asked me "Can you say ...?" I answered in the negative. I was talking to him a few days later and he pointed out: "You just said that thing you said you couldn't say."

                Comment

                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 29881

                  When did a cookery book become a cookbook? Is there a difference?
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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                  • jean
                    Late member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 7100

                    About the time the swimming baths became a pool?

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                    • Pulcinella
                      Host
                      • Feb 2014
                      • 10672

                      Originally posted by french frank View Post
                      When did a cookery book become a cookbook? Is there a difference?
                      Perhaps when the Moosewood Cookbook became so popular?

                      First edition 1974.

                      (Haven't checked first use/usage: it's usually you and jean who find that out for us!)

                      Comment

                      • vinteuil
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12664

                        .

                        ... or perhaps Alice B Toklas, 1954



                        1971 also saw the Anarchist Cookbook...

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                        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                          Gone fishin'
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 30163

                          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                          1971 also saw the Anarchist Cookbook...

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook
                          Anarchy in the UK three years earlier:

                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                          • P. G. Tipps
                            Full Member
                            • Jun 2014
                            • 2978

                            'Bufton-Tuftonism ... '

                            A hopelessly outmoded term still used by some on the Classist Left, the only good thing to be said for it is that it is not an Americanism.

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                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 29881

                              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                              Anarchy in the UK three years earlier:

                              http://biblio.co.uk/book/jimmy-young...FZUV0wodOpkHpw
                              The earliest British use of cook-book in the OED is 1951: John Wyndham - The Day of the Anarcho-Triffids. An American use dates from 1809: An assortment of culinary reviews, vulgarly called cook-books.

                              Cookery book goes back to 1639.
                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • Richard Barrett
                                Guest
                                • Jan 2016
                                • 6259

                                Originally posted by P. G. Tipps View Post
                                A hopelessly outmoded term
                                - recte a term used to describe people with hopelessly outmoded attitudes, known from the pages of Private Eye, a journal hardly noted for its left-wing bias.

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