Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[gurnemanz]

I've just listened to the programme. I also studied modern languages and taught them for all my working life and was pleased to hear a fellow linguist being given a platform at a peak time on national radio. The presenter is both an expert and an enthusiast and I have the greatest respect for her. She started off by stating that her aim was to provide information and shed light. This is a perfectly valid exercise since it is a subject where linguistic and cultural prejudice plays a large part. I personally dislike quite a lot of American usage but in general cannot argue against linguistic cross-fertilisation, since it is quite obviously the impulse by which human languages have evolved over centuries. Language tends to flow naturally like a river and resist being concreted in like a canal. The man from Queen's English is fighting a similarly futile battle to the Académie française in its struggle against Anglicisms in French. Bon week-end!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So Suzy went to Oxford and was awarded a Masters Degree ?. So did David Cameron, MA (By Seniority).

A couple of differences:
1) Ms Dent earnt her MA by studying at a different University - not the Masonic "seniority" system offered by Oxfam. It's bona fide (if you will allow a latinization).

2) Her MA was directly connected to linguistics and etymology. Mr Cameron's gratis (if you will forgive a latinization) MA had no connection with his subsequent career or television (if you will forgive a hybrid - if you will forgive another latinization - greco-latinization) or radio (if you will forgive yet another latinization) appearances. (It would indeed be difficult for Oxford to offer a post-graduate degree in bugg (the remainder of this post has been redacted if you will forgive the functional shift verbing of a francophization ).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Susie [sic] at least studied a real subject, not that abomination PPE!

My apologies to Ms Dent for "Americanizing" her name. (Although, of course, the notion that it is an "Americanism" to use the more correct "z" in certain verbs is totally inaccurate.)

And apologies to Pulcie for redundantly repeating everything stated with much greater succinctness (if you will forgive a latinization) in his Post. I really must get into the habit of reading all subsequent (if you will forgive a latino-francophization ) posts before replying to earlier ones.

[french frank]

I suppose the point is that Americans - from whatever country their family originated - 'borrowed' English and there's nothing to say they can'y modify it in daily use if they wish. We are now 'borrowing back' their version of English.

I am more gloomy about the 'cultural Americanisation' than the linguistic one (English being such a magpie language anyway). But at my age I just think to myself 'oh, get over it'.

[Richard Tarleton]

Rex Tillerson used the word "foundational" yesterday which was new to me but it turns out it's a perfectly cromulent word.

[Pulcinella]

My apologies to Ms Dent for "Americanizing" her name. (Although, of course, the notion that it is an "Americanism" to use the more correct "z" in certain verbs is totally inaccurate.)

And apologies to Pulcie for redundantly repeating everything stated with much greater succinctness (if you will forgive a latinization) in his Post. I really must get into the habit of reading all subsequent (if you will forgive a latino-francophization ) posts before replying to earlier ones.

Not a problem!


As chairman of trustees of a charity I once wrote a letter with the traditional z spelling I had got used to at the Institute of Physics (and which appears as the first spelling in many dictionaries), only to be told by the founder that 'We are not American'!
I didn't have the courage or energy to explain that the z usage is no such thing!

Oh, and I'm one of those people with a 'gratuitous' MA from a certain place: my granny paid the £5 conversion fee! But I earned my PhD the real way (though found writing the declaration that it was all my own work rather strange, as, in common with much scientific research, there was a lot of collaboration in the team and with my supervisor!).

[P. G. Tipps]

But at my age I just think to myself 'oh, get over it'.

That is a huge temptation, of course ... succumbing to the inner bully!

However, Ms Dent, bless her, tells us that we should like Americanisms in our language for no other apparent reason than the fact that she (and the 78-year old Marty Wilde) do like them.

A word, of course, is just a word. I fully understand that and it is not something I would willingly go to WWIII over. There are certainly much more important things in life but God help us when we decide to spend our lives just discussing really important things !.

My 'irritation' (in the spirit of the OP) is not the introduction of a few 'American' words and phrases into 'British' English it is the way that the media (not least presenters at the BBC) suddenly start using them in a way that they previously never did before. Why is this?

I suspect you were correct earlier when you suggested that it might simply be a question of some attempting to appear 'cool' and rather less "unstuffy", maybe with any eye on the largely Americanised commercial competition. Surely most of us grow out of that juvenile mindset when we (admittedly sadly!) depart our teenage years?

If Ms Dent insists that we should all enthusiastically embrace the now almost automatic adoption of Americanisms into our language I, in turn, simply respond by suggesting that we maybe could demand something a little bit more measured, open-minded and less patronising to the listener from The British Broadcasting Corporation !.

[MrGongGong]

g to the inner bully!

However, Ms Dent, bless her, tells us that we should like Americanisms in our language for no other apparent reason than the fact that she (and the 78-year old Marty Wilde) do like them.
:

I'm assuming you have read this ?

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/56790/mother-tongue/

If not , maybe you should
THEN complain about "Americanizummms "

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My 'irritation' (in the spirit of the OP) is not the introduction of a few 'American' words and phrases into 'British' English it is the way that the media (not least presenters at the BBC) suddenly start using them in a way that they previously never did before. Why is this?

Because this has always been so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkhorn_term

There have always been linguistic Cnuts who seem to be trying to stem the tides of language, freezing it at a point somewhere around their fifteenth birthday - they have always failed, and the "impurities" they decide to take against become part of the language. The difference, of course, is that there would have been two occasions for the sea to actually "go back" when he "commanded" it - the juvenile mindsets exhibited by the rather sad creature from Queen's English haven't a hope.

"Mindset" is itself an American neologism, dating from the 1920s, when it would doubtless have set the teeth on edge of many a reader of the Times - once he'd remembered to put them in.

(And, yes - I do know that Cnut did the "sea go back" thing to discourage sycophancy. That version doesn't work in this context. And as for the etymological origins of the greco-latinization "sycophant" -- I'll leave that to those who are so interested to discover for themselves.)

[french frank]

That is a huge temptation, of course ... succumbing to the inner bully!

My inner bully is a linguist! And this is one of the ways 'language' works.

But if anyone suggested that I should 'enthusiastically embrace the now almost automatic adoption of Americanisms' I should tell them not to be absurd. We each have our idiolect which works for us. I would adopt an Americanism if I found it useful. For some people latching on to the new IS their use of language. Please don't censure them

[greenilex]

On the Cnut matter, Southampton has double tides...once round the Island, once not.

[jean]

I hope it is not too political to mention the context of a phrase new to me:

“The Tories have run a terrible campaign that has revealed Theresa May has a glass jaw..."

I'm not sure if it sets my teeth on edge exactly, though it probably would if I had one.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Isn't "glass jaw" from Boxing? The equivalent of an Achilles' Heel - but, in the rough-and-tumble of Electioneering, it sounds more ... pugilistic?

[Richard Tarleton]

Isn't "glass jaw" from Boxing? The equivalent of an Achilles' Heel - but, in the rough-and-tumble of Electioneering, it sounds more ... pugilistic?

Indeed it is. Sportswriter Jim Murray said of Frank Bruno that he has a chin of such pure Waterford crystal, it gives rise to the old adage that people who live in glass jaws shouldn't throw punches. Widely used.

[Padraig]

Widely used.

Getting to be more widely used - 'Indyref2' - Oh! My teeth and jaws!