Phrases/words that set your teeth on edge.

[Pabmusic]

In Spanish, Pues....

Can I introduce the Filipino tapos. It seems common to most Filipino languages (Mrs Pabs speaks four - Ilonggo, Visayan, Tagalog and Kinaray-a, and our maid [!!] Marivic speaks T'boli) and also occurs in Malaysian and Indonesian languages.

It can mean "end" (from Katapusan) but is more often used as "and then..." (from Pagkatapos) - a filler that prolongs the conversation. As a non-Filipino speaker, I can testify that speech - casual, radio and TV - is punctuated with tapos every few seconds.

[verismissimo]

... You might as well try to stop people clapping between movements...

[P. G. Tipps]

But only in the first person.

In the second and third, the significance is reversed (according to the convention) but the infant Scotty, having no power to enjoin anyone to do anything, did not need to know this.

Well, that does have the distinct ring of rectitude about it, and I'm not at all persuaded by this curious 'intent' argument bandied about by others here.

For example, 'I shall not go to the concert with you, because I can't stand Bruckner' has exactly the same 'intent' as 'I will not watch television this evening, as I can't stand David Cameron'.

Furthermore, I wouldn't be so presumptuous to speak for the infant Scotty but my informed guess is that it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference even if his teacher had fully revealed the definitively correct English usage to him ?

It served the little blighter right if he ended up with a good dose of the tawse ... or more likely the ferula, in his case, I believe.

[jean]

For example, 'I shall not go to the concert with you, because I can't stand Bruckner' has exactly the same 'intent' as 'I will not watch television this evening, as I can't stand David Cameron'.

According to the theory that attempts to account for the convention, it's not so much intent as determination.

Doesn't everyone remember the story about the foreigner who, in difficulties while swimming but insufficiently versed in this convention, uttered this cry for help:

Nobody shall save me! I will drown!

He duly drowned.

For years I was satisfied with Fowler's exposition of the origins of the convention, here:

http://www.bartleby.com/116/213.html

But my faith was somewhat shaken in the course of the discussion I linked to in my #2116.

.

[Richard Tarleton]

I can testify that speech - casual, radio and TV - is punctuated with tapos every few seconds.

On the Today programme today, swimmer Adam Peatty managed 31 "you knows" in an interview lasting 6 minutes and 17 seconds (if you're curious it's at 2.27.25) - and bear in mind at least half of the interview was the other guy talking.

[Pabmusic]

On the Today programme today, swimmer Adam Peatty managed 31 "you knows" in an interview lasting 6 minutes and 17 seconds (if you're curious it's at 2.27.25) - and bear in mind at least half of the interview was the other guy talking.

I know of no research to support this, but I suspect that fillers may often be 'easy' sounds pronounced in an expelled breath that allow the subsequent inhalation to have its full effect. You know...

[Richard Tarleton]

I know of no research to support this, but I suspect that fillers may often be 'easy' sounds pronounced in an expelled breath that allow the subsequent inhalation to have its full effect. You know...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Would you want to have been [Scotty's English teacher]?

The man deserved a medal.

[P. G. Tipps]

Must have come up, but I've missed it.
What truly grates for me is the way huge numbers now start an answer to a question with 'SO'. Media littered with it. I simply do not understand how this has gradually crept into becoming the default position.

Hey, I think I can answer that though I feel certain that ahinton, at least, will (shall) automatically beg to differ!

I do believe it is yet another appalling Americanism which has not just crept but, it would seem, battered its way into our precious and beloved language. I agree that this must grate with all right-thinking and maybe some left-thinking people of even minimal taste. I haven't really a shred of evidence for this apart from previous experience of American TV, but, let's be honest, where else would it have come from with our almost juvenile fascination of anything and everything 'Stateside'?

The other wretched Americanism that has recently emerged is the irritating habit of TV and radio interviewees responding with 'Hello, how are you?' when they are first introduced by the interviewer. Most interviewers rightly ignore this absurd and pointless 'pleasantry' but some do respond with 'I'm very well, thank you'!

Just get on with the ****** interview, please ...

[P. G. Tipps]

The man deserved a medal.

He certainly did.

The poor chap had some shrapnel permanently protruding from his back as a result of fighting the Japs in WWII.

He never complained (just belted us) but he must have been in constant discomfort if not severe pain.

He also took PE and often belted us again there. Happy days!

[Serial_Apologist]

Philip Hammond.

[Barbirollians]

Can I get ? What happened to May I have ?

[french frank]

Can I get ? What happened to May I have ?

Or even: 'Can I get' instead of 'May I have, please'.

[jean]

I don't mind 'Can I have...?'

I don't see why Romance languages can both express possibility and request permission with a verb from the root posse, while we English speakers get slapped down for being insufficiently deferential if we do the same.

[jean]

Statement of intent, promise or obligation:

I will
You shall
He/she/it shall
We will
You shall
They shall

(I will be there, I promise. You shall get the drink I owe you then.)

Although I acknowledge that this distinction, which I was taught, probably has no basis in histoprical usage, I do hear second- and third-person shall with the sense of intent or obligation, and the post in a recent obituary thread here he shall not be forgotten sounds odd, unless the writer is able to achieve this in some measure.