Banks

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

not using banks and denying the validity of paper is a rather desperate solution [and logistically unworkable] proposed by my new anti bank hero

[MrGongGong]

how on earth do you come up with quality solutions like that ?
Amazing.
Got any equally straightforward solutions for suppliers/employers who don't pay on time, incorrect direct debits, emergency repairs that need making , and all the other stuff that happens in life?

Another solution to bank rip offs, of course, is not to use one. Which has itself been made close to impossible, and very expensive(EG cheque payments for utilities).

Indeed
what planet do some people live on ?

What seems to get more and more difficult is to have what is a modest amount of flexibility, it seems to me that if you don't get paid on a regular monthly basis you are somehow being deliberately odd or awkward. Many self employed folk and small businesses run in to problems due to cashflow rather than a lack of demand but it gets harder and harder to deal with this.

[Resurrection Man]

how on earth do you come up with quality solutions like that ?
Amazing.
Got any equally straightforward solutions for suppliers/employers who don't pay on time, incorrect direct debits, emergency repairs that need making , and all the other stuff that happens in life?

Another solution to bank rip offs, of course, is not to use one. Which has itself been made close to impossible, and very expensive(EG cheque payments for utilities).

Now you are mixing up business accounts (which we weren't talking about) with private accounts. As far as incorrect direct debits are concerned then either the company incorrectly taking it out or the bank if they were responsible will recompense you and also for any additional fees that you might have incurred. OK..I accept that it takes time to sort out but financially you should end up none the worse off. Emergency repairs? Well, that's life...tough. It's not the banks fault, is it? Or if you are regularly going into overdraft then why not try and release some capital if you have a house by taking out an extra mortgage? Interest rates are considerably less than going into overdraft because you can't manage your financial affairs properly.

[MrGongGong]

Now you are mixing up business accounts (which we weren't talking about) with private accounts. .

For some of us there's no difference at all
avoiding having a "business account" is a very good strategy if you are self employed

[Resurrection Man]

Indeed
what planet do some people live on ?

One where we face up to our responsibilities and manage our lives and finances and don't blame a third party when it all goes pear-shaped due to our own mismanagement.

What seems to get more and more difficult is to have what is a modest amount of flexibility, it seems to me that if you don't get paid on a regular monthly basis you are somehow being deliberately odd or awkward. Many self employed folk and small businesses run in to problems due to cashflow rather than a lack of demand but it gets harder and harder to deal with this.

Small businesses and self-employed people are another matter and we weren't discussing business accounts.

[Resurrection Man]

For some of us there's no difference at all
avoiding having a "business account" is a very good strategy if you are self employed

Why?

[MrGongGong]

Why?

Because they will try and charge you for every transaction
and make up a load of nonsense about how the revenue say need you to have one , which they don't

[teamsaint]

For some of us there's no difference at all
avoiding having a "business account" is a very good strategy if you are self employed

Quite. I did that for 20 years. saved me an absolute fortune in business account fees.

Not bad for someone who can't manage their financial affairs.

Or, as some people would see it, doesn't have the resources to take on a rapacious government that is determined that my kids will, if the government have anything to do with it, have 50k debts each for the privilege of gaining first degree...or to make ends meet on the sort of salaries most people get when it costs £250 k to buy a house with a bedroom for each person, or to cope with static wages and rapidly escalating fuel /motoring costs etc etc etc etc etc.
I am sure if I got rid of the kids, sold the house, sold the car, ate the cats, and got a proper job (oh no, I remember, I have one lucky me) I could have stacks left over to keep my current account in surplus and plenty to sink into licensed theft, sorry a pension fund, so that I could enjoy seeing the age at which I could get my hands back on my own money raised JUST before I reach the required age, as has already happened to me.
At least that would keep the banks and their government poodles happy, wouldn't it. Probably not, actually.

[teamsaint]

Because they will try and charge you for every transaction
and make up a load of nonsense about how the revenue say need you to have one , which they don't

Small businesses in this country, contrary to government propaganda, have to put up with a load of **** from various authorities.
Business accounts is just one aspect. Ask your local high st indie trade about business rates next time you are in (if you have any left). Its no wonder our high streets are all charity shop and multinational coffee chains.

(not aimed towards you MrGG, I know you know this !)

[Resurrection Man]

Just so I have understood you both correctly, teamsaint and MrGongGong, you have both admitted to arrying out what is basically fraud. You both have run a business using your personal account to avoid paying charges for a service that you have received from the bank. Pray tell me how different is that to someone hiding their money in a tax haven, for example?

The phrase 'arrant hypocrites' springs to mind.

[Resurrection Man]

Quite. I did that for 20 years. saved me an absolute fortune in business account fees.

Not bad for someone who can't manage their financial affairs.

Or, as some people would see it, doesn't have the resources to take on a rapacious government that is determined that my kids will, if the government have anything to do with it, have 50k debts each for the privilege of gaining first degree...or to make ends meet on the sort of salaries most people get when it costs £250 k to buy a house with a bedroom for each person, or to cope with static wages and rapidly escalating fuel /motoring costs etc etc etc etc etc.
I am sure if I got rid of the kids, sold the house, sold the car, ate the cats, and got a proper job (oh no, I remember, I have one lucky me) I could have stacks left over to keep my current account in surplus and plenty to sink into licensed theft, sorry a pension fund, so that I could enjoy seeing the age at which I could get my hands back on my own money raised JUST before I reach the required age, as has already happened to me.
At least that would keep the banks and their government poodles happy, wouldn't it. Probably not, actually.

While reading your little rant, teamsaint, (why, I can hear that keyboard being hammered from here ) I can't help wondering where you think the money to repay the countries debts etc is going to come from...so that students don't have to pay such high fees etc? Ah yes, silly me. The banks...who you used to defraud. You couldn't make it up

[teamsaint]

Just so I have understood you both correctly, teamsaint and MrGongGong, you have both admitted to arrying out what is basically fraud. You both have run a business using your personal account to avoid paying charges for a service that you have received from the bank. Pray tell me how different is that to someone hiding their money in a tax haven, for example?

The phrase 'arrant hypocrites' springs to mind.

You think that if you want to.
And if you can you can explain how running a bank account to pay in and take out one's own money, above board, declared to HMRC, is a fraud then I will be impressed.

Since you seem unaware of how business accounts work, I will explain. many self employed people, the hard working, tax paying "keeping the dole figures down" ones run a private account for their business, whilst the business is completely above board. Precisely none of them feel guilty, since business accounts are a complete rip off, and the banks STILL make money out of the private account. Busines accounts are a rip off in the way MrGG explained.
I have been with the same bank for 30 years, and i can assure you I don't feel that i have defrauded them in any way.
Feel free to report me though.

[teamsaint]

While reading your little rant, teamsaint, (why, I can hear that keyboard being hammered from here ) I can't help wondering where you think the money to repay the countries debts etc is going to come from...so that students don't have to pay such high fees etc? Ah yes, silly me. The banks...who you used to defraud. You couldn't make it up

you are the business guy, RM...you tell me .

Oh no, I know what, I'll have a go.
I don't give a **** about the deficit, since before the bank induced crisis it was well under control. The banks can sort it, they caused it.
It spiralled when the banks screwed the economy and needed bailing out.

Oh and just TRY to keep it civil.
Most of the rest of us do.

Edit: all the evidence that I have seen says that the tuition fee hikes will actually cost the country money in anything like the forseeable future, not save it. Its a con.

[Resurrection Man]

.....
I don't give a **** about the deficit, since before the bank induced crisis it was well under control. The banks can sort it, they caused it.

That is remarkably simplistic. It was not all the fault of the banks. Governments across the world, poor regulatory frameworks and organisations and anyone who took advantage of the 'cheap' money to go on that extra holiday or buy a bigger house, for example, all have a share of the blame.

By the way, you posted twice up there, old chap.

[MrGongGong]

Just so I have understood you both correctly, teamsaint and MrGongGong, you have both admitted to arrying out what is basically fraud. You both have run a business using your personal account to avoid paying charges for a service that you have received from the bank. Pray tell me how different is that to someone hiding their money in a tax haven, for example?

The phrase 'arrant hypocrites' springs to mind.

Oh dear me

You obviously don't know my friend Jack then

Being self employed means that you are precisely that , there is no separate "business"
the bank doesn't give me any other "service" than what it gives to someone who is on PAYE