Our Caring government strikes again

[MrGongGong]

So for those who are allergic to the Guardian I suggest you put your conspiracy theories on the shelf for a moment

this is more than a little worrying (and also reinforces what i've been attacked for saying in the past about personal experience of certain politicians !)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/28/another-omnishambles-this-time-personal

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

it is a potent but murky threat by my read of the Harris piece ... they would not be doing it except to reduce expenditure but they, the Coalition, are becoming quite cavalier towards the physically and mentally disadvantaged

[amateur51]

This Coalition government will go down in history as the most regressive in terms of their treatment of disabled people and their supporters.

I have a friend in his mid-50s who was 'up before ATOS' the French organisation that makes millions assessing whether or not disabled people in receipt of welfare benefits should really be sent to work. He's been in a state of acute anxiety ever since he received his appointment letter a few weeks ago and I've had him near to tears on the phone several times.

He attended his appointment at 09:00 yesterday and was interviewed by a young person with a heavy East European accent and an even heavier attitude which accentuated his feelings of alienation from the entire process. His disability arises from his HIV status and the amount of benfit in question is about £20/week, hardly a fortune.

We spoke on the phone afterwards and he clearly felt that he'd been put through the wringer. He told me that he felt no sense of release or relief that it was all over, with just the decision to come; he felt that he had been treated as a liar, a cheat, scum.

If the decision goes against him he will appeal - good for him. Current evidence shows that over 50% of appeals are successful. They cost the Government a huge amount of money to run and the failure rate is costly too. In addition they have turned my friend, usually a fairly chilled character, into a disability activist.

What a pointless exercise. Anyone who knows people living with HIV long-term knows that no two days are the same. The medication certainly extends your life and to a certain extent provides some consistency but rather like living with a baby or a person with dementia, you know that tomorrow will not necessarily be the same as today. Some people with HIV hold down a part-time job, good for them. A few manage a full-time job, likewise. But my friend may be about to be harassed back to work (what work?) all for the sake of £20 when he has worked full-time all his life since leaving school at 15 until his HIV diagnosis about 5 years ago.

Harris's article shows how heavily these plans will impinge on disabled children's lives and those of their parents, all to their detriment. They are a thoughtless sledgehammer to crack an almost non-existent nut all in obeisance to the vile slogan "We're All In This Together".

As slogans go, it appears that Goebbels' legacy lives on. After all 'Arbeit Macht Frei!'

[teamsaint]

Thanks for the link MrGG...desperate stuff.
The SEN system is difficult enough for plenty of people, no doubt this will be a worse system.Many already don't get the education they need. From my brief reading, I guess you will be "in or out"...and we know which way it will head.

As ever with politicians, don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.

They are stripping everything they can, breaking centres of opposition, directing funds away from people, and towards companies.

Meanwhile, tax breaks and £30 k a year education carry sweetly on for the top few percent.
Amsy's story about his friend is just a dreadful indictment the system, and where it is headed.

[eighthobstruction]

John Harris always worth a read....good that the SEN debate has such a person on side and with personal experience.
One wonders what Sarah Tether is saying now she is out of the loop?

....the ESA assessment debate started with the Labour administration....indeed ATOS may be employing assessors who are under-qualified, under-experienced (in fact almost certainly are),also lacking the language and common parlance that most British born /educated claimants speak in. They seem to be Dr's and Health Workers that are unable to work in the NHS due to EU Regulations but can be employed by Atos ( The Chief Medical Officer for Health waives the minimum qualifications and experience in these cases).

....AM51, if your friend should fail their assessment....they should first take advantage of the 'Decision Maker' process, which comes before Formal Appeal process....but all would be explained in paperwork from the DWP should they fail. In these Assessments it very much about knowing 'what' to say....and 'how' to say it....and what 'not' to say....because it all comes down to yes or no answers used by ATOS in their LIMA computer programme used at the assessments by the assessor. It is easy to give a wrong formulation of grammar in an answer, and say the opposite of what you mean.
eg Assessor : How are you today
Claimant : Not too Bad (or I'm fine)
Where as the Claimant should say"I'm feeling very anxious about this interview, I've got HIV and my condition fluctuates, some days worse than others"
The assessment starts from the very first 'good morning' questions....(in the first case they have lost an assessment point, in the second they have gained one)

[amateur51]

John Harris always worth a read....good that the SEN debate has such a person on side and with personal experience.
One wonders what Sarah Tether is saying now she is out of the loop?

....the ESA assessment debate started with the Labour administration....indeed ATOS may be employing assessors who are under-qualified, under-experienced (in fact almost certainly are),also lacking the language and common parlance that most British born /educated claimants speak in. They seem to be Dr's and Health Workers that are unable to work in the NHS due to EU Regulations but can be employed by Atos ( The Chief Medical Officer for Health waives the minimum qualifications and experience in these cases).

....AM51, if your friend should fail their assessment....they should first take advantage of the 'Decision Maker' process, which comes before Formal Appeal process....but all would be explained in paperwork from the DWP should they fail. In these Assessments it very much about knowing 'what' to say....and 'how' to say it....and what 'not' to say....because it all comes down to yes or no answers used by ATOS in their LIMA computer programme used at the assessments by the assessor. It is easy to give a wrong formulation of grammar in an answer, and say the opposite of what you mean.
eg Assessor : How are you today
Claimant : Not too Bad
Where as the Claimant should say"I'm feeling very anxious about this interview, I've got HIV and my condition fluctuates, some day worse than others"
The assessment starts from the very first 'good morning' questions....

Sarah Teather is my MP so I plan to raise some of these issues next time I meet her in the supermarket, eighth


Cheers for the ATOS advice too - I shall pass it on to my mate & try to drag him along to a local disability organisation where I'm sure he get sound appeal advice, perhaps some physical presence as a supporter at the appeal.

[handsomefortune]

i haven't, as yet, read the article linked in mssge 1, but evidently atos is no more in some areas, contracts have been given to ......................capita, instead apparently.



did anyone hear margaret hodge, late last night on r4? she was trying to get to the bottom of the actual qualifications of interpreters (also now employed by capita, the interpreters service having also been outsourced), and hodge's insistance on the significance of proof of language skills, and details of the exact qualifications (allegedly) acquired?? training and aptitude for the job in hand is apparently something tories simply 'forgot' to question, or what?

it does make me wonder how many properly trained staff have been drummed out of specialist professions only to be replaced by people who apparently don't know much, and what's more apparently don't care.

interpreters are used in all sorts of serious, formal situations, including judicial, medical, jc+, education, and other areas where decisions are made based only on the evidence formally presented on a specific day.

go go go margaret hodge! after she's finished with bogus interpreters/qualifications, hopefully she will progress onto the precise ramifications as regards exactly the same 'cost cutting' chaos now in place in so many other areas - the loss of specialist provision for physical disability, special needs, and mental health etc hodge and co should lobby for immediate change, and preferably across all age groups, 'from cradle to grave'.

why is it only margaret hodge of the shadow cabinet who has let it be known publicly that she is absolutely incredulous at the gravity of the consequences of 'outsourcing', the long term consequences for so many people affected by recent changes in one way or another?

however, is the ongoing silence because labour initiated much of the current mantra about 'empowerment', 'localism' etc and therefore can't bare to return to this topic? it means acknowledging the utter chaos and hardship that labour initially contributed to! could it possibly be that 'instead' ed milliband feels it 'sufficient' to just have a few pops at celebrities who express their repulsion and prejudice at people with disabilties in public, often as a form of (supposed) 'comedy'. the likes of clarkson must feel that kicking the most vulnerable in the teeth adds to their 'personality' as a 'superior' (incredibly smug and ignorant) tv celeb'.

ed and co need to do and say a whole lot more imo ...as the supposed 'opposition' and especially as labour party representatives. the greens could also be a lot more vocal, since life affecting statutory changes surely are just as relevant as the subject of 'sustainability' in general? who are we sustaining the environment for - the 1%?! as for relevant charity orgs, now's surely the time to ditch money put aside to pay celebrities to 'increase public awareness' ....and re-allocate cash towards a more constructive, form of charitable assistance, useful to individuals.

[eighthobstruction]

Get them to write down now everything they can remember about the assessment....how much they were physically examined, how much attention the assessor paid to them (because of the computer imput, the assessors quite often spend 80% of the time looking at their computer screens). The timings (how long the ex' took) should be displayed on the Decision Paperwork they will get soon. It sometimes takes between 6 -15 months to get final appeal result due to long delays at Tribunal level. But if they can remember what questions they were asked (and their answers) that will help. Also what they felt they were NOT asked relevant to their disability. The assessors often (nearly always) ask a lot of irrelevant questions and are minimal with relevant questions.

[eighthobstruction]

A quick look at Google does not throw up much info re the SEN debate....none really beyond official sources ....

[Serial_Apologist]

Get them to write down now everything they can remember about the assessment....how much they were physically examined, how much attention the assessor paid to them (because of the computer imput, the assessors quite often spend 80% of the time looking at their computer screens). The timings (how long the ex' took) should be displayed on the Decision Paperwork they will get soon. It sometimes takes between 6 -15 months to get final appeal result due to long delays at Tribunal level. But if they can remember what questions they were asked (and their answers) that will help. Also what they felt they were NOT asked relevant to their disability. The assessors often (nearly always) ask a lot of irrelevant questions and are minimal with relevant questions.

And I would think record on your mobile, maybe - assuming of course you have one...

[MrGongGong]

The real issue facing those with children with SEN
is that without a legally enforceable statement that has a precise definition of the kind of support needed (AND most importantly the number of hours that this is for) some schools will simply either ignore recommendations OR "share" the support out amongst other pupils.
There is a parallel with the way in which arts subjects are being marginalised in the curriculum , MUSIC is expensive (as is catering for those with disabilities) any way that the accountants in charge of things can get the price down without breaking the law is fine. Once we cease to have statutory provision then we will get no provision at all.
There are many young disabled people without anything to do, nowhere to go and no support now that they have left school and are no longer in education. Fine for the millionaire Eton boys but NOT for the rest of us

[amateur51]

The real issue facing those with children with SEN
is that without a legally enforceable statement that has a precise definition of the kind of support needed (AND most importantly the number of hours that this is for) some schools will simply either ignore recommendations OR "share" the support out amongst other pupils.
There is a parallel with the way in which arts subjects are being marginalised in the curriculum , MUSIC is expensive (as is catering for those with disabilities) any way that the accountants in charge of things can get the price down without breaking the law is fine. Once we cease to have statutory provision then we will get no provision at all.
There are many young disabled people without anything to do, nowhere to go and no support now that they have left school and are no longer in education. Fine for the millionaire Eton boys but NOT for the rest of us

All good points MrGG!

There is an exact parallel with the changes regarding youth service that started under Labour. I think I'm right in saying that there is no longer a statutory basis for youth work (as social education) per se, but only if it is linked to 'careers' (the dreadful Connexions).There are now over 1m NEETs aged 16-24 with no daytime provision for them. Their lives are essentially on hold until they break out again as many did in the recent riots, when they will get the blame, not government policies.

[handsomefortune]

it's apparently 'illegal' to record conversations according to dwp....... funny that, as they leak fake stats they've 'recorded' regularly to 'the mail', and elsewhere.

yet citizens are not allowed to record their actual dealings (and possibly get them published in a newspaper).

[MrGongGong]

it's apparently 'illegal' to record conversations according to dwp.......

hummmm

I bet they just made that one up

(though given that it is "illegal" to protest outside our own parliament I suspect that they might be correct but not right )

[handsomefortune]

i heard that (the dreadful) Connexions has also gone now apparently....