Our Caring government strikes again

[Dave2002]

The real issue facing those with children with SEN
is that without a legally enforceable statement that has a precise definition of the kind of support needed (AND most importantly the number of hours that this is for) some schools will simply either ignore recommendations OR "share" the support out amongst other pupils.
There is a parallel with the way in which arts subjects are being marginalised in the curriculum , MUSIC is expensive (as is catering for those with disabilities) any way that the accountants in charge of things can get the price down without breaking the law is fine. Once we cease to have statutory provision then we will get no provision at all.
There are many young disabled people without anything to do, nowhere to go and no support now that they have left school and are no longer in education. Fine for the millionaire Eton boys but NOT for the rest of us

MrGG

The SEN system is bust, and has been for years. That the current government is trying to make a bad situation worse does not surprise me.
Under the system as it was some while ago, it did indeed take a long while for parents to get their children statemented, and notionally this then gave rise to funding supposedly to support disadvantaged children. Often this funding was then diverted, sometimes in part, sometimes in whole, to other activities, by headteachers and others. Often the argument put forward was that they really did not have the money to do most of the other activities which they were contracted to do, and therefore they had no real choice. I am aware of SENs who put forward arguments that such action was illegal, and that there was a statutory right for the disadvantaged pupil to have access to the funding and appropriate support (sometimes quite considerable), but this often did not work out.

It's easy for politicians to try to rule by dictat, but the on the ground situation may really not work with rules as they are in place. I don't have an easy answer, but a lot of our education and social and health systems do not work for people who are seriously disadvantaged, and I fear that politicians, and others, including us, often find it easier to forget about these. It's always someone else's problem. Some seriously disabled or disadvantaged people have problems which are so big that it's almost impossible for many of us to comprehend. Not only that, but their problems very frequently rebound on their families, and make situations very much worse for them too.

Maybe we do live in a caring society, but not much of a one.

[eighthobstruction]

The first Harrington Report (ESA) rec' pilot schemes for all assessments being recorded... this seems to have fallen by the wayside long-grass....of course Atos very much against it as it would really show their bsub-standard assessors up , good and proper....3rd Harrington Report in the process of being compiled....

[eighthobstruction]

Yes, Gong Gong , that it the sort of straight forward information people would need to see the picture of what the SEN issues are....in class, home and street, etc....It's never going to be a headline grabber, but what is happening needs to be disassembled and put into everyday conversations....

....it is very difficult to create a letter to send to your MP ref SEN if you do not know the subject in detail....

[handsomefortune]

pathways - manned by school leavers for a specific purpose, and it sure aint for their work experience. they are imo chosen for their complete ignorance of the 'omnishambles', because they are required to share bizarre instructions with 'clients', such as: 'come back in 6mnths and we'll see what jobs are around, and if your terminal illness is better'.

!!! 'tactless' doesn't begin to cover the offence in context.

the above happened to a good friend who was ironically second in line to the chief exec of a major, national, disabilties charity, prior to her diagnosis.

whereas 'pathfinder' is presumably the same sort of thing as 'pathways' - but due to a real concerted lack of dedication as well as imagination, govt have various paths for different sections of society, all of which lead no where useful to the 'client'. why do citizens pay their nhs stamp if they are a 'client'?

[aeolium]

....the ESA assessment debate started with the Labour administration....indeed ATOS may be employing assessors who are under-qualified, under-experienced (in fact almost certainly are),also lacking the language and common parlance that most British born /educated claimants speak in. They seem to be Dr's and Health Workers that are unable to work in the NHS due to EU Regulations but can be employed by Atos ( The Chief Medical Officer for Health waives the minimum qualifications and experience in these cases).

eighthobstruction, the disability assessment problems did indeed increase with the introduction of ESA by the Labour govt in 2008, and it was the Labour govt that first contracted ATOS to do the work capability assessments. A report by the Scottish CAB in May 2010, "Unfit for Purpose", described the multiple failures of the process in Scotland. That report showed that 25% of all assessments were appealed and 40% of those appeals were successful (70% where the CAB assisted with representation) - it's likely that if more assessed people had invoked the appeal process these figures would have been higher. Under the Coalition govt there has been no improvement: in London between April 2010 and May 2011, figures for ESA appeals in London showed around 30% of ESA decisions being appealed and around 40% of those successful. The situation will get even worse with the introduction of Universal Credit as the Grey-Thompson inquiry found.

[eighthobstruction]

eighthobstruction, the disability assessment problems did indeed increase with the introduction of ESA by the Labour govt in 2008, and it was the Labour govt that first contracted ATOS to do the work capability assessments. A report by the Scottish CAB in May 2010, "Unfit for Purpose", described the multiple failures of the process in Scotland. That report showed that 25% of all assessments were appealed and 40% of those appeals were successful (70% where the CAB assisted with representation) - it's likely that if more assessed people had invoked the appeal process these figures would have been higher. Under the Coalition govt there has been no improvement: in London between April 2010 and May 2011, figures for ESA appeals in London showed around 30% of ESA decisions being appealed and around 40% of those successful. The situation will get even worse with the introduction of Universal Credit as the Grey-Thompson inquiry found.

You are absolutely right....it is only the articulate or well supported and informed who tend to appeal....many people do not know their rights or have capacity to take on the system. You do need to read up on the subject, and take a lot of effort writing letters and researching. So as you say less people appeal, than who in fact could appeal.

[MrGongGong]

....it is very difficult to create a letter to send to your MP ref SEN if you do not know the subject in detail....

You would think that Cameron WOULD know some of this subject in detail ???

But I guess not
which is what many of us who have had children with statements find so impossible to understand ? (ooooo but i'm not allowed to say that as it upsets the sensitive folk and is considered "bad taste" to which my only answer is tough sh*t )
WHY make it worse ?

and to pick up on Dave's points

Without statutory protection the support that is supposed to go to an individual will get diluted
the best option is that if you do have a child with SEN that you encourage them to throw the furniture about a bit
because without a "crisis" NOTHING will happen

Several years ago we did have a "conversation" with a head teacher where did point out that to divert the allocated support was illegal and if they did we would make a huge fuss. The consequences of this are that our son is now able to go to college and do A levels after having the support needed, but I fear for those currently in the system and younger

[eighthobstruction]

I have just fired off something to my MP Julian Smith Coinservative, nice bloke. I used pasted stuff from the article....better than nothing.

Again as I said about ESA, it helps if you are articulate and in the know ref approaching authorities to get what is due.

[Dave2002]

MrGG
Currently in some cities in the UK there are many children with severe special needs - even at very young ages - e.g pre primary school. It is not unrealistic for 95% of these children to be given no or very little support, with social workers and educational psychologists doing their best to try to find ways to handle this situation. With somewhere between 10:1 and 20:1 underfunding this is a thankless, and very depressing thing to have to do.

Consequences of this may be that parents who would otherwise be able to go out and earn to support some of their children may not be able to. Also, dealing with problem children is so demanding that the parents get very tired. Some difficult cases (all ages up to 20!) may require 2 or 3 to one attention, and that may also be round the clock. That's a very considerable work load for an organisation to deal with, but when the work is simply pushed back to parents the strain it causes is almost unbearable.

Even though these children are so demanding, as a proportion of the whole we should have enough capacity and also compassion in our society to be able to cope. Unfortunately we seem to be lacking in funding, and also many of the people who do take up jobs in caring situations to deal some of these demanding children are very poorly paid, and many of these will either be trapped for life in very demanding jobs at low pay, or alternatively move out into other more lucrative and less stressful (and less caring) employment.

It's difficult to draw more attention to some of the difficulties, as, quite rightly, there are confidentiality and privacy issues. I think most people in the UK are unaware of the problems which a small, but significant proportion of children and their families have to cope with. It would be good to raise general awareness without compromising on the privacy of those affected.

[Dave2002]

Several years ago we did have a "conversation" with a head teacher where did point out that to divert the allocated support was illegal and if they did we would make a huge fuss. The consequences of this are that our son is now able to go to college and do A levels after having the support needed, but I fear for those currently in the system and younger

I may still have some sympathy with head teachers re this, though I'm glad that you managed to get something good sorted out for your son.
The pragmatist in me suggests that perhaps a 50%/50% split with the head teacher, even though that is "illegal" may in some cases be the best compromise which can be achieved. The problems I feel come from higher up, due to general lack of adequate funding, and it has not been unknown for head teachers to allocate nothing to the statemented children, and simply divert the funds to others, presumably on the grounds that there isn't enough money anyway, and they feel it's better for more to be helped than just one or two.

You are right about making a fuss though, as the children with statements should definitely be given as much of the support to which they are legally entitled - but sometimes I believe various practicalities get in the way. Not all head teachers are bad - some have impossible decisions to make.

[MrGongGong]

Not all head teachers are bad - some have impossible decisions to make.

Indeed they aren't
I spend a lot of my working life doing music projects in Special Education and have a lot of empathy for those who work in the field
BUT ........ and it's a huge BUT

compared to being a parent its a doddle a total pleasant stroll on a sunny afternoon
you get sick pay, time off, paid holidays,CPD and a nice (ok not as good as it could be ) pension at the end of it

most teachers are wonderful
most schools also do the best in very difficult circumstances

what happens to those parents who are simply unable to navigate the system ?
(and i'm sure you know as well as I do what the answer to that one is !!!)

We should judge our society by how well it treats its most vulnerable and things do seem to be at a bit of a tipping point

[amateur51]

We should judge our society by how well it treats its most vulnerable and things do seem to be at a bit of a tipping point

I'm afraid that you're right MrGG and it'll be a deuce of a job to get things back to some sort of scratch if/when decent sense prevails again

[ahinton]

I really must take more notice of what is going on around me, for I'd not even realised that our government - "caring" or otherwise (according to taste or whatever else) - had even gone on strike once, let alone repeated that action...

[handsomefortune]

I really must take more notice of what is going on around me,

arguably, why start now ahinton!?

tbf this is coincidentally how the last two govts have got away with what they have, as far as damage to future generations of adults are concerned. a percentage of people never need encounter the 'omnishambles' usually due to personal wealth cushioning them from the hardships of statutory changes. or (apparently) having no children, friends, neighbors, relatives etc effected by disability which helps people remain clueless. or, more than likely, many people never ever identifying a necessity, never mind the compulsion to venture into their own communities, and schools. in this context, this is why 'the big soc' was always a total nonsense....though (thankfully) we don't hear much about it now.

employees who do notice recent govt regressions in children/youth services, and are vocal about what they see as threats to childrens welfare and education, seem to be promptly replaced, or retire early. poorly trained, part time, under qualified, younger staff cost less. anyone who watched the last 'seven up' series latest round up of the participants career progress, may remember the special needs worker, who'd initially begun work in the 1970s, working in a childrens mobile library in a london borough. evidently, over time she had worked her way up, seen many changes, including improvements as far as institutional accountability, and parents rights are concerned. iirc at the beginning of the 2000s she was over seeing a group of children with typically varied individual educational needs. but in this year's episode of 'seven up' she'd been made redundant, unhappy that she'd been 'replaced' (and to her sheer incredulity), by young and inexperienced employees. she expressed anxiety and concern that new staff apparently didn't seem to see the necessity to initiate communication, and actively encourage interaction with children. yet usually this is a basic necessity where children suffer a range of often inter-related disabilities, social skills being typically adversely effected by other problems.

imo this bit of mr gong gong's guardian article link rings so many bells: All this seems comically antithetical to what habitually comes out of ministers' mouths: an officially sanctioned power-grab by often unreliable public institutions, at the expense of the few solid rights that parents currently possess. Although the cost of implementing the reforms looks huge, much of this is seemingly driven by the same logic as the cuts that are already impacting on the lives of children with disabilities and learning difficulties: in pushing public bodies further away from accountability, the government seems to be giving them freer rein to hack back provision even more. On occasion, in fact, the DfE has looked only too happy to create exactly that impression: do not forget that last spring, the plans arrived in a flurry of headlines about as many as 450,000 children being taken out of the category of special needs altogether, as if they had been put there thanks to a spasm of profligacy and trendy teaching.

of course, it wasn't 'trendy' teaching!

it is widely believed to be due to the rise and rise of numbers of uk children with behavioral problems, which according to educational specialists, such as sir ken robinson, have been caused due to the specific effects of a range of changes in how we now live, as well as learning conditions. children were (are) disrupting classes, and teachers were (are) encouraged to exclude 'problem' kids, who were often then statemented, largely for convenience sake. it is this cultural phenomenon within the educational system which accounts for the 'trendy' changes in stats.

baring in mind ken robinson's theories, the frantic over promotion of technological gadgets specifically to childrens markets is particularly irksome, irresponsible in this specific context. especially when you look at mounting problems, further down the line on leaving school, with huge percentages of those in prison suffering learning difficulties, as well as poor social skills, and mental health. attention deficit and poor social skills sometimes have links with over use of digital screens, as screen games etc are great to 'hide behind' but particularly irresistible to those who find social interaction very difficult.

however, evidently it is perceived most important to keep both parents and children as 'busy' as possible, while the current raft of miserable regressions go ahead, (as well as keeping x box profits bountiful).

a good/useful screen to get addicted to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

educational cost cutting from a global perspective specifically relating to £/$ sss, and outsourcing as a global trend. conspicuously this beginning pre financial crash is relevant imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0&feature=relmfu

imo govt needs to be held to account as to why it thinks it necessary to take these dangerous risks? also why it currently requires the public to believe that 'reform' relates to 'the deficit left by nulabour', and other hastily concocted excuses which prove utterly threadbare on closer inspection.

[ahinton]

arguably, why start now ahinton!?

That might depend upon who was doing the arguing! It was a joke, of course, as you obviously realise and as your response was likewise!...