Police and Crime Commissioners

[Guest]

Polling cards arrived here at Tarleton Towers a few days ago for the election on 15 November. Since nothing else about the elections has come through the door, and with a little over two weeks to go, I googled the election for my area (the geographically huge Dyfed Powys) and found this - just two candidates, neither of whom has made themselves known to me. You can vote for more than one candidate which is a bit of a nonsense with just two candidates.

I can think of no good reason to vote for either candidate, nor indeed to depart from the status quo. Is the best course simply to do one's bit to ensure a pathetically small turnout in the hope the project is abandoned? What are other MBers' experiences of this election thus far?

[french frank]

Polling cards arrived here at Tarleton Towers a few days ago for the election on 15 November. Since nothing else about the elections has come through the door, and with a little over two weeks to go, I googled the election for my area (the geographically huge Dyfed Powys) and found this - just two candidates, neither of whom has made themselves known to me. You can vote for more than one candidate which is a bit of a nonsense with just two candidates.

I can think of no good reason to vote for either candidate, nor indeed to depart from the status quo. Is the best course simply to do one's bit to ensure a pathetically small turnout in the hope the project is abandoned? What are other MBers' experiences of this election thus far?

The first point is that voting is by the Supplementary Vote system. You vote either for one person only or first and second preference. Unless I'm missing something, a first vote will suffice []

In Bristol it's tied up with an election for mayor - which 16% of the electorate voted in favour of having and the remainder either voted against or didn't bother to vote. Hence we have an election for mayor and will have a mayor whether we want one or not. As this is a keenly fought election, a couple of the parties have included details of their mayor/police and crime commissioner candidate on leaflets.

If you've received nothing, I would advise you not to vote. If you do receive a bit of information which is enough to make you defintely prefer one candidate: difficult. You're going to get someone elected, so the argument is that you might as well have someone you marginally like rather than someone you dislike.

Personally, I think the whole thing is insanity and in your position would probably stay at home.

[mangerton]

I think the whole thing is insanity too, and thank goodness we don't have it in Scotland - at least not yet!

If I were in RT's position, I think I'd be phoning, emailing, or writing to both candidates to ask them firstly why they hadn't bothered to get in touch, and secondly, why they deserved my vote. I'd make my decision on who to vote for, or indeed whether to vote at all, on their responses.

If any.

[MrGongGong]

What are other MBers' experiences of this election thus far?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-20025046

and the rest of them all effectively say the same thing
so WHY have a vote at all ?

[umslopogaas]

I'm bemused by this and suspect it is a diversionary tactic by the gov. If so it has worked, because I cant figure out what I've been diverted from. As I see it, I have a small but sufficient amount of knowledge about politics and I can therefore take part in a democratic vote with some competence to select my preferred candidate. But I know nothing relevant about police work and nothing about the candidates. I have no competence to select one, and shouldnt be asked to. The people who should be doing the selection are the senior police people themselves: they know the candidates and will be best placed to judge the right person for the job. This seems to be the government bestowing a democratic right on the people which they are not competent to exercise.

[MrGongGong]

Good point ums

it's more than a little ridiculous that a government who no one voted for are asking us to vote for something we have no knowledge of

bizarre in the extreme
Is ANYONE who is standing in this election saying anything significantly different to anyone else ?
and surely the motives of those who put themselves forward are more than a little suspect ?

[teamsaint]

Good point ums

it's more than a little ridiculous that a government who no one voted for are asking us to vote for something we have no knowledge of

bizarre in the extreme
Is ANYONE who is standing in this election saying anything significantly different to anyone else ?
and surely the motives of those who put themselves forward are more than a little suspect ?

I have held the opinion for a long time that anybody who wants high office should be barred from it, , on those very grounds !!

[Anna]

Totally agree with umslopgaas, whilst I'm friendly with our local bobbies I have no ability to decide which candidate would be best for the job and Mr. GG's link is very disturbing . We have 4 standing, 2 Independent and one each for Labour and Conservative. So far I've had a booklet from the Electoral Commission and a leaflet from one of the Independents. There certainly hasn't been anything in the local paper profiling the candidates and their policies.

[ahinton]

In addition to the bemusement that it offers ums, I admit to being somewhat amused and bemused (there's no c-mused, is there?) by the very idea of an official crime commissioner in the context of the police who surely have more than enough crime to deal with already without having any more of it officially commissioned!...

[eighthobstruction]

The only good affect has been that the discredited CC of West Yorkshire has stood down six months earlier, all the 5 candidates saying that their first act would be to issue his P45....

I always use vote....but not this time....

[Petrushka]

Matters here in East Staffordshire are pretty much the same as RT says. However, the polling card I had did draw attention to this: http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk/ so it would seem that you have find out who your canidates are without them going to the bother of making themselves known to you. The information given (one Conservative, one Labour candidate) is hot on what they want to do but tells us nothing about their qualifications or capabilities for taking on such a job. What was the selection procedure?

Still a couple of weeks left for potential leaflet runs but I fail to see why I should have the slightest interest in adding another level of bureaucracy (and potential corruption) to the police force. It's 'democratic accountability' innit?

[french frank]

What was the selection procedure?

Can't say what happened in other areas or for other parties, but locally for the Lib Dem candidates in the Avon & Somerset area, all members were circulated with details and there were hustings where the candidates spoke. All the candidates had some kind of experience with police/judiciary/prisons as lay people or (ex-)professionals. But, obviously, that was purely for the selection of the candidate and voting was limited to party members.

Obviously, both independents and party candidates will have great difficulty reaching all the members of their local electorate - which will be a much bigger area than the parliamentary constituency - more like a Euro constituency - and it will be enormously expensive to print professional quality leaflets. I'm not sure if they get a free postal delivery, as they do in a general election: my suspicion is that they don't, in which case independents with no local party deliverers will be at a disadvantage, as will any party with no local activist network. I did read that the expenditure allowance per candidate was £99,000 - I find this hard to believe.

Democracy is ain't, yet democracy is the entire rationale for these public elections.

[heliocentric]

a government who no one voted for are asking us to vote for something we have no knowledge of

I believe it's called democracy, MrGG: a choice between basically equivalent alternatives, dressed up as empowerment. Sounds like people aren't being taken in. Here's an interesting article from the New Statesman about the whole sorry business:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/10/ten-reasons-why-police-commissioner-elections-leave-us-cold

[french frank]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-leave-us-cold

Good article.

[MrGongGong]

I would think that the best option
would be to have a mass abstention
rather than playing this silly game