Composers / performers - nice guys or not?

[EdgeleyRob]

I don't know whether 'meet' is the word ER. Does a shop assistant 'meet' a customer. I worked in a hire library and RVW wandered in for his MSS paper. He was old,very deaf and had a very quiet voice. He was friendly enough and humble enough to wait in a queue one day until we rescued him. His chauffeur waited outside in Dean Street,Soho and we had to get RVW into the lift, which was very small and send him down to his 'man'. That's all. I don't think I realised at 20 or so that he was destined to be one of the great composers. This would be about 1951.

Just to have been in the same room,awesome.
Nice story,greatest composer ever in my very humble opinion.

[handsomefortune]

my grandma sang in a choir that rvw conducted, and fancied him no end. when i heard that he'd allegedly 'touched girls' knees and flirted', i felt particularly disappointed on gran's account ....! though my grandad (who's role it was to be 'loose') probably would have been jealous as hell if rvw had paid gran any extra attention beyond choir practice. that's if he'd have even noticed, as grandad was quite busy checking on the au pair's 'duties'! the checking probably got more demanding, if gran was out singing her socks off ....(my family suppose in retrospect).

[Petrushka]

On the whole, I don't think I would have wanted to meet Beethoven or Wagner up a dark alley. Elgar could be very touchy and over-sensitive but both he and Shostakovich are the composers I really would have got on with (though there might have been a language problem in the case of DSCH!)

[Pabmusic]

...The oft-cited Wagner case is interesting to the extent that, whilst he was indeed openly anti-Semitic, so was Chopin (albeit far less and far less noisily so), yet that no more affected his friendships with Jews (especially Alkan) than it did Wagner's and I think it reasonable to deduce that Chopin's influence on Wagner (certainly in harmonic terms) bears no relation whatsoever to their respective views about Jews...

Interesting about Chopin - I didn't know that.

[gurnemanz]

I think Emma Kirkby would make a fine Head of state....of the ceremonial kind...and she could sing at her own ceremonies, which would save public money.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Emma is almost exactly the same age as me, which qualifies her as a kindred spirit, even though our relationship is rather tenuous: I once glimpsed her at Heathrow airport. I also saw her perform Bach in the Thomaskirche in Leipzig and am the proud owner of the this Dowland box:

[salymap]

And as for conductors, they seem to be nice guys when you get to know them a bit but either loved or hated by their orchestras.

The LSO in the 1950s seemed to have group of, what else, brass and percussion players, who were very outspoken when travelling to the RAH on a number 9 bus in the mornings. No names no packdrill as HS says.
It didn't matter who theconductor was to be - they couldn't stand him.

My friend and I and the rest of the passengers enjoyed the journey a lot.

[ardcarp]

as for conductors, they seem to be nice guys when you get to know them a bit but either loved or hated by their orchestras.

There are so many different personality types among conductors it is impossible, IMO, to be categorical. It is quite easy to be a nice guy....maybe inspirational and funny...if parachuted in to work with, say, a youth or student orchestra. Confronted by a bunch of pros, all excellent musicians who've seen it all before (some of whom may be perfectly capable of being conductors themselves), a different scenario develops. Airs, graces and talking too much will go down like a lead balloon. Quiet competence sometimes pays off, but consider what a conductor has to achieve? If I may I'll give two very different examples.

I went to a well-known and long-running West End show recently. The MD was directing a smallish band in the pit, playing keyboard himself and keeping some complex stuff onstage well under control. The band had probably played the dots a billion times, and what they needed (and got in spades) was sheer competence...and an easy life. So I guess the MD would have to make it clear he expected high standards in spite of the sometimes mindless repetition, especially during a matinee with the house full of kids and grannies. Would being a nice guy always work?

Earlier this year I was chatting with a conducting mega-star (who shall remain nameless) who had been booked to conduct a couple of Mahler symphonies with the Vienna Phil. He was privately terrified, saying, "They all know far more about Mahler than I do". Imagine his thoughts about mounting the podium and deciding what attitude to strike in front of some of the finest players in the world. Mere competence and being a nice guy will hardly do. Being 'inspirational' might be hard because such an orchestra probably suffers from inspiration overload. (Think Simon Rattle's face...no it wasn't him.) So it is hardly surprising if strategies include playing the eccentric genius, the sensitive aesthete, the martinet, the finicky fusspot...anything other than just normal.

[Petrushka]

There are so many different personality types among conductors it is impossible, IMO, to be categorical. It is quite easy to be a nice guy....maybe inspirational and funny...if parachuted in to work with, say, a youth or student orchestra. Confronted by a bunch of pros, all excellent musicians who've seen it all before (some of whom may be perfectly capable of being conductors themselves), a different scenario develops. Airs, graces and talking too much will go down like a lead balloon. Quiet competence sometimes pays off, but consider what a conductor has to achieve? If I may I'll give two very different examples.

I went to a well-known and long-running West End show recently. The MD was directing a smallish band in the pit, playing keyboard himself and keeping some complex stuff onstage well under control. The band had probably played the dots a billion times, and what they needed (and got in spades) was sheer competence...and an easy life. So I guess the MD would have to make it clear he expected high standards in spite of the sometimes mindless repetition, especially during a matinee with the house full of kids and grannies. Would being a nice guy always work?

Earlier this year I was chatting with a conducting mega-star (who shall remain nameless) who had been booked to conduct a couple of Mahler symphonies with the Vienna Phil. He was privately terrified, saying, "They all know far more about Mahler than I do". Imagine his thoughts about mounting the podium and deciding what attitude to strike in front of some of the finest players in the world. Mere competence and being a nice guy will hardly do. Being 'inspirational' might be hard because such an orchestra probably suffers from inspiration overload. (Think Simon Rattle's face...no it wasn't him.) So it is hardly surprising if strategies include playing the eccentric genius, the sensitive aesthete, the martinet, the finicky fusspot...anything other than just normal.

In a TV interview several years ago, Bernard Haitink said of his profession: 'To do this job you have to be a bit of a bastard'.

[ahinton]

Composers as nice guys? I find that one abit of a hard nut to crack, but then perhaps I would, wouldn't I?(!)...

[ahinton]

In a TV interview several years ago, Bernard Haitink said of his profession: 'To do this job you have to be a bit of a bastard'.

Yes, but let's put that in the context of ample other professions within which some might well argue that to practice one has to be a heck of one...