Composers / performers - nice guys or not?

[salymap]

On the whole my view is that true geniuses are unlikely to be normal, nice guys in the sense that we usually mean. They're bound to be a bit weird. I do notice their views on life, though, and that can affect me a bit, but it's very important that we 'judge' them in the context of their time.

If the music is good enough, I forgive a lot!

EDIT: We need to be wary of documentaries and biographies. Go back to first sources - letters, diaries and so on, if they exist.

I agree very much with your EDIT Mary, I think the book about poor Rubinstein was just a biography with scant knowledge of the facts. AR's Autobiography, vol2 is very interesting- the middle part of 3 volumes.

[handsomefortune]

imo it's an interesting topic for a thread salymap.

i definitely agree that sensationalised documentaries don't often help one iota.....and that if the creativity comes up to scratch, viewed within the context of the times the creative lived in..... audiences will settle for knowing of personal attributes they certainly wouldn't tolerate in family/friends.

on an unpleasant discovery about a favourite artist, sometimes it is a tough call deciding on what you do actually think, and feel in response - much depends on what the particular offence/s was/were, verses how unique the creative achievement. however, i have a personal aversion to proclamations of 'genius' in general, as they don't really cut the mustard imo per se...never mind excuse appalling behaviour. doesn't it suffice to deeply admire someone? rather than ideas of them being somehow 'beyond human'!

much can also depend on encounters with experts, for instance discussion of a less famous creative person, debate that may ensue, and certain audiences that may be attracted....i admit that sometimes other peoples' perceptions, and particular personal stance, can influence my own views, as much or more than well known facts about a famous creative's life. in which case i might get the feeling that i don't want to be roped in with 'them lot' as an audience.... since there is a choice, as the arts provide both the distance and the options to make such decisions.

though i assume having certain provisos as regards your own appreciation is a fairly new 20th c concept, perhaps they seem less important than they were, even a decade ago. i think perhaps we go back and forth between extremes as regards this topic - (and if you look at documentaries over the decades - often according to fashion).

i do notice i feel totally differently about contemporary creatives...in comparison to those born into different centuries. i also allow for 'mistakes' from creatives from other cultures ... not doing so is as absurd as projecting 21st c beliefs on those born in the 19th.

i rarely feel nothing, no interest in who a creative might be, have been like.......... as a person. it's usually irresistible to wonder!. mainly because i naturally want to understand, if possible, what of their particular life experience, if anything, has contributed to their unique art form. though there's acres of room for hogwash in this area, as covered by mainstream media. it tends to gloss over, or sensationalise as it chooses, and risks appearing reactionary as a result. all in all, best to follow and cultivate your own instinct, do your own research, as a rule of thumb, in fact surely this is a component part of 'appreciating' many things!

[ahinton]

In the case of at least three Jewish 20th century composers (probably more) we find music that clearly acknowledges their debt to Wagner's expansions of form, harmony and orchestral techniques, whatever they thought of him as a person; indeed I'd find it hard to believe that Mahler, Zemlinsky and Schoenberg were unaware of Wagner's views on Jewish people.

That is of course very true - all of it.

[MrGongGong]

Professional musicians are a variable lot. .

But ALL composers are wonderful people

[teamsaint]

But ALL composers are wonderful people

so if we all just got composing....

[MrGongGong]

so if we all just got composing....

The world would be a much better place

[teamsaint]

The world would be a much better place

Quite. Buddy Holly never caused a war .....

[MrGongGong]

Indeed

If we had made Jonathan Harvey in charge of foreign policy we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today !
If we had made John Cage in charge of education then we would be celebrating curiosity instead of squashing it

and so on .........

but i'd rather they composed music than became politicians .........

[antongould]

I agree very much with your EDIT Mary, I think the book about poor Rubinstein was just a biography with scant knowledge of the facts. AR's Autobiography, vol2 is very interesting- the middle part of 3 volumes.

Among AR's many scounderlly acts was to leave his wife for another woman when he was 90 - unless the book I read made that up of course!!

[teamsaint]

Indeed

If we had made Jonathan Harvey in charge of foreign policy we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today !
If we had made John Cage in charge of education then we would be celebrating curiosity instead of squashing it


and so on .........

but i'd rather they composed music than became politicians .........

This is a very positive approach MrGG. (celebrating curiosity....if only....this lack makes me very sad...)

personally, I think we should start at the top.
I think Emma Kirkby would make a fine Head of state....of the ceremonial kind...and she could sing at her own ceremonies, which would save public money.

Ok a rather small c conservative musical choice...but inclusivity is important...

[salymap]

Among AR's many scounderlly acts was to leave his wife for another woman when he was 90 - unless the book I read made that up of course!!

Perhaps his wife was glad to get rid of him anton, think of all the things we don't know. :dove:

[antongould]

.......perhaps she was

[antongould]

On, or off, topic - until today's COW I was not aware of the Artur Rubinstein Philharmonic Orchestra.

[EdgeleyRob]

Perhaps his wife was glad to get rid of him anton, think of all the things we don't know. :dove:

I'd love to have met RVW Saly,did you meet him?
I get the impression he was a nice guy,or is it my rose-tinted specs?

[salymap]

I'd love to have met RVW Saly,did you meet him?
I get the impression he was a nice guy,or is it my rose-tinted specs?

I don't know whether 'meet' is the word ER. Does a shop assistant 'meet' a customer. I worked in a hire library and RVW wandered in for his MSS paper. He was old,very deaf and had a very quiet voice. He was friendly enough and humble enough to wait in a queue one day until we rescued him. His chauffeur waited outside in Dean Street,Soho and we had to get RVW into the lift, which was very small and send him down to his 'man'. That's all. I don't think I realised at 20 or so that he was destined to be one of the great composers. This would be about 1951.