Plebs 1 Toffs 0

[Resurrection Man]

I'm neither a Socialist Worker nor one possessed of "envy"
but find this assumption to be indicative of much muddled thinking
It really isn't true that we all aspire to the same things and are therefore consumed with "envy" at those who have the things that we don't !
Sure, I would rather like to go and spend a bit on esoteric microphones but am not "envious" of those who have them
similarly my objections to the royal family are not born of "envy"

In more extreme examples this (I think this is the right phrase ?) cognitive dissonance accounts for the inability of many involved in politics to understand at all how other people think. USA (and to some degree UK) foreign policy being a prime example , it simply is impossible to comprehend that some people in the world don't want 500 TV channels, microwaves or big flash cars.

I'm also no psychologist but i'm sure that if I was there would be interesting things to say about those who use the idea that others are simply envious to justify their wealth (often whilst pretending to subscribe to a religion that tells them the opposite !).

Scotty's take on Anarchy is a bit odd
Anarchy is NOT Chaos

It's quite OK, Gong. I feel for you. Being in denial is a hard place to be. Realising that you are there is the first step on the road to recovery. I wish you well.

[teamsaint]

It's quite OK, Gong. I feel for you. Being in denial is a hard place to be. Realising that you are there is the first step on the road to recovery. I wish you well.

Try my Apple Store test, RM.
if you want something to put you off consumerism, its just the thing.
Its funny, because there are lots of people who could afford lots of things that they could buy, that are "considered desirable" but they manage to avoid the urge to acquire them.
Interesting to how our urge to consume has to be fuelled by the advertising industry and government....we are perpetually being given the hard sell for things we managed quite well without previously.

I love this film...

http://www.storyofstuff.org/movies-all/story-of-stuff/

Simple, but effective.

Oh well, perhaps RM is correct, and the world would be a better place if we could all just honestly admit we are driven by envy...i suppose it would be a simpler, and thus better world.

[MrGongGong]

There was even a suggestion that David Icke would become leader.

Though Icke's beliefs are no more ridiculous than those of mainstream christianity so maybe he should be in the Lords ?

[amateur51]

RM's Rule 2 applies. When on the back foot, resort to ignoring what is there in black and white and default to name calling.

The phrase Pot...Kettle...Black springs to mind. Anything that does not equate to your worldview is automatically discarded. Wow....now THAT is what I call a 'closed mind'.

When was the last time Hertfordshire voted to become a communist state, RM? Or Alsace? Or Campania?

I was asked to name a successful communist regime and I have done so. Success defined by 50 years of existence in this case.

If you don't have the wit or imagination to engage, then I suggest that you get off my case

[amateur51]

Perhaps a Proudhonian differentiation needs to be made clear between property (land, factories, raw materials - the stuff that creates profits) and possessions (objects for personal use and/or pleasure? "Property is theft" means that because people are (literally) alienated from the sources of profit, they have to become dependent on those who "own" these sources of wealth and power. Possessions are a matter of individual choice; owning a particularly fine piano cannot be put in the same category as owning a private corporation.

(Under a society influenced by Proudhon's ideas, there would be no such thing as "State Ownership" because Proudhon recognized what ahinton identifies as "the powers that be who run the state".)

[amateur51]

Learning Portuguese would be fun...)

However, I'm becoming increasingly fed up with yet more silly jibes, name-calling and smileys by the score from one or two who clearly are unable to appreciate the posts of several others. So I suggest that you desist, disappear and stop making fools of yourselves. This is precisely why I am supporting ff's idea of a separate, restricted area for those who wish, and are willing, to discuss these things in an intelligent manner.

Change the record Prof - I'm still waiting for several responses from you, about 'rationality and religion' for a start

Edit: And an apology over on the Iran thread - otherwise I'll be forced to seek a ruling under the new hard-line regime you're so keen on

[french frank]

Sorry, but I can't stand this any longer. I'm closing this thread until I've sorted out the sensible posts and put them on a different forum. Then I'll reopen this one and you can continue the sub-juvenile sniping here.

[french frank]

The political discussion has been removed to the new forum. I think I've given all sides a hearing there.

As one of the key contributors has asked for his account to be closed, logged out and (apparently) closed the email account which he opened in order to join the forum, I'm unable to make a response to him privately.

If this remaining part of the thread has run its course it will peter out but if people want to continue with it, they can.

[Serial_Apologist]

Though Icke's beliefs are no more ridiculous than those of mainstream christianity so maybe he should be in the Lords ?

I expect that proposal originated from the Ickebana Tendency within the Green Party...

[MrGongGong]

I expect that proposal originated from the Ickebana Tendency within the Green Party...

Re-arranging the flowers on the Titanic ?

[amateur51]

Re-arranging the flowers on the Titanic ?