Plebs 1 Toffs 0

[aeolium]

yes, apologies I was trying to contradict the Rawnsley quote

Yes, though technically the Rawnsley article is correct. The number of Old Etonians in the cabinet had dropped since the reshuffle but after "plebgate" it rose again.

[Flosshilde]

I'm still a bit puzzled by the origin of the whole strammash. Had Mitchell normally used the gate that was now closed to him? Why did the police on duty suddenly decide that he could no longer use it? Was it because they couldn't be bothered opening it? What instructions do they have about who can use it & who has to use the side gate? If I'd been in Mitchell's position I'd have been very pissed off, & would have muttered all sorts of imprecations about the b****y police (but possibly not loud enough for them to hear).

[french frank]

I'm still a bit puzzled by the origin of the whole strammash.

Me too. Given that the main gate appears to be closed (except when opened) I presume that, if it was open at that moment (Mitchell was coming away from a meeting at No 10) it was just about to be closed again. Observing that it was open, Mitchell saw nothing wrong with trying to cycle through it, so he did. As you would. (Sounds a bit like a Hoffnung story)

The PC was apparently acting officiously but not ultra vires. And whereas the original fault would have been the constable's, Mitchell managed to attract the blame to himself.

[mercia]

"[George Young] is also a baronet and an alumnus of that posh training school near Slough. This must be the greatest of the ironies of "plebgate". The ultimate result is to increase the number of titled Old Etonians sitting round the cabinet table."

now that I've read that quote properly I don't really see what significant point is being made

surely GY is the one and only titled Old Etonian in the cabinet

the number has gone from one to zero to one [Lord knows why I'm going on about this]

[An_Inspector_Calls]

What an extremely bizarre posting .

Until very recently someone who swore at the police was regarded as having committed a public order offence .. . .

. . .when the police record emerged suggesting he had used the word " pleb" . This made the police account sound much more convincing than that of Mr Mitchell it being rather more likely that he, a public school educated man from a privileged background brought up in the 1970s would use such a word than two younger police officers would invent it .

All that sounds just motherhood and apple-pie, but then the police didn't arrest him nor did they charge him.

And then there's your throw-away phrase 'when the police record emerged' - any idea why it should emerge? We know how it emerged: the police sent their joint accounts (purely by coincidence of course) to the Sun. Happy with that?

As for the police statements being convincing, try the links in Ney Nonymous a few back (#66) . . .

[french frank]

Me too. Given that the main gate appears to be closed (except when opened) I presume that, if it was open at that moment (Mitchell was coming away from a meeting at No 10) it was just about to be closed again. Observing that it was open, Mitchell saw nothing wrong with trying to cycle through it, so he did. As you would. (Sounds a bit like a Hoffnung story)

The PC was apparently acting officiously but not ultra vires. And whereas the original fault would have been the constable's, Mitchell managed to attract the blame to himself.

OTOH, it appears from this Guardian story §7, that the main gate was actually closed. Mitchell asked for it to be opened and the PC directed him to the side gate. If true, that puts Mitchell on even shakier ground and makes the constable less 'officious' (to quote my word).

But I can't answer A-I-C's questions about how the story got into the papers ...

[teamsaint]

Surely, if everybody asked questions all the time about which stories get into the press, or public domain, and why, we would be here all day and all night.

Governments brief on and off the record, journalists use all sorts of sources , acknowledged or unacknowledged. Public organisations, like the police, brief on and off the record for all sorts of purposes, legitimate and maybe less so.The government asking difficult questions about how stories reach the public domain is pretty Iionic...what's sauce for the goose etc.
Thats not to say that if the police put this "out there" that this is in the public interest, but integrity in public life seems to be at a pretty low ebb.

The question of which stories make the front pages and BBC headlines, and which get left out or ignored, is a really vital one.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not knowing about these things, I wonder whether a Chief Whip with such a short fuse is a good thing or a bad thing.

I wonder whether if fact this episode was stress-induced. The fact that the ex-chief whip has lost so much weight does suggest some kind of breakdown, in which case, perhaps we should show some compassion. However, any Tory making a fool of himself can only be a good thing under normal circumstances.

[french frank]

Governments brief on and off the record, journalists use all sorts of sources , acknowledged or unacknowledged. Public organisations, like the police, brief on and off the record for all sorts of purposes, legitimate and maybe less so.The government asking difficult questions about how stories reach the public domain is pretty Iionic...what's sauce for the goose etc.

It was Jim Callaghan who said: "You leak, I brief."

I think, though, there is something to be investigated about how The Sun got the story - and the police have announced an investigation.

[greenilex]

By the way, Saturday's TUC march was great - I felt part of a large, well-organised and determined movement. I'm glad the unions have been maximising their resources for the inevitable winter actions.

[Flosshilde]

By the way, Saturday's TUC march was great - I felt part of a large, well-organised and determined movement. I'm glad the unions have been maximising their resources for the inevitable winter actions.

I'm pleased it was a good turn-out. Radio 4 this morning, looking at the papers, commengted that the Telegraph, or the Mail, or one of that ilk, had a headline alongh the lines of 'Thugs don't turn up for march'.

[ahinton]

It was Jim Callaghan who said: "You leak, I brief."

Sure, but since so many journos, politicians and the rest habitually leak into their briefs nowadays, does it really matter any more (other than to those who make money from it)? Some news is probably leaked before it occurs just as certain music critics of the past have written up concerts that they've not attended. What's sauce for the goose is source for the Guardian, or something.

[kernelbogey]

...What's sauce for the goose is source for the Guardian, or something.

[mangerton]

It was Jim Callaghan who said: "You leak, I brief."

I think, though, there is something to be investigated about how The Sun got the story - and the police have announced an investigation.

From "Yes Minister" :

Bernard Woolley: That's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential security briefings. You leak. He has been charged under section 2a of the Official Secrets Act.

[Flosshilde]