Steam Railways

[Nick Armstrong]

Just noticed, of interest to us trainspotters (!) tomorrow BBC2 9pm "The Flying Scotsman - A Rail Romance" Promises interesting archive footage of its journeys between Kings Cross and Edinburgh.

Thanks, heartface!

[hmvman]

is it possible that there is some confusion with The Royal Scot which went to USA in 1933 which in photo (The Railway Magazine p 41 Jan 1963) does appear to have a distinctive smokebox door name plate which is not on original engine (and of course there were 2 engines with this name!)

Certainly there's similar confusion between locomotive and train with Royal Scot the loco and The Royal Scot the train service. I've just remembered that last year the Railway Magazine did a feature on all (or nearly all) the named trains in Britain. I'll dig it out tomorrow and try to clear up the confusion - well, I'm confused anyway!

[hmvman]

Well, for what it's worth, I've looked up both The Flying Scotsman and The Royal Scot trains and while their history goes back to the 1860s, their names were both official from June 11th 1927 (although the carriages of the 10am service from King's Cross had carried roof boards bearing the name The Flying Scotsman since October 1924.

The locomotive Flying Scotsman was named in 1924. The locomotive Royal Scot was the first of a new design of express locomotives that appeared in 1927. A Royal Scot train and loco went to the USA in 1933 for a publicity tour but the loco used was not the original Royal Scot but another member of the class renumbered and named specially for the USA trip.

That's it, anorak now off and hung up for a while......

[umslopogaas]

All this talk of the Flying Scotsman reminds me of the review of the Konwitschny recording of Wagner's 'Flying Dutchman' in my 1982 New Penguin Stereo Record and Cassette Guide.

"The snag is Marianne Schech as Senta, periodically letting out sounds more apt for the Flying Scotsman than the Flying Dutchman, but she finds much tenderness too."

[JFLL]

That's it, anorak now off and hung up for a while......

Well, I’ll don the anorak by mentioning that the names of express train services (as opposed to locomotives) are quite interesting, even romantic. The GWR had, for example, The Flying Dutchman (named apparently after the winning horse of the Derby in 1849, not the Wagner opera!) and The Zulu (http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/G...auge/Zulu.html), as well as more obvious names such as The Cornish Riviera Express, the Torbay Express and The Cheltenham Flyer.

[hmvman]

Well, I’ll don the anorak by mentioning that the names of express train services (as opposed to locomotives) are quite interesting, even romantic. The GWR had, for example, The Flying Dutchman (named apparently after the winning horse of the Derby in 1849, not the Wagner opera!) and The Zulu (http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/G...auge/Zulu.html), as well as more obvious names such as The Cornish Riviera Express, the Torbay Express and The Cheltenham Flyer.

I just looked up The Flying Dutchman in the RM feature and, yes, the train was named after the racehorse but the article mentions that the racehorse was named after the Wagner opera! I see there was a train called The Benjamin Britten which ran from Harwich to London in the years 1987 - 1989. But, as that was well past the steam era it's off-topic in this thread.

[JFLL]

I just looked up The Flying Dutchman in the RM feature and, yes, the train was named after the racehorse but the article mentions that the racehorse was named after the Wagner opera! I see there was a train called The Benjamin Britten which ran from Harwich to London in the years 1987 - 1989. But, as that was well past the steam era it's off-topic in this thread.

I forgot to mention that another GWR (or at least Western Region) named train was The Cathedrals Express -- Paddington - Worcester - Hereford. I remember seeing it drawn by the Castle Class Sir Edward Elgar, which fittingly was stabled at Worcester shed and usually kept in tip-top condition, I believe.

[Gordon]

Hall Class oco GWR, 5933 Kingsway Hall, Built June 1933. First shed allocation Bristol, Bath Road. August 1950 shed allocation Reading. March 1959 shed allocation Southall. May 1965 shed allocation Oxford. Last shed allocation Oxford. Withdrawn August 1965. Scrapped at Bird's, Llanelly.
KH itself scrapped 1997 London.

[hmvman]

I forgot to mention that another GWR (or at least Western Region) named train was The Cathedrals Express -- Paddington - Worcester - Hereford. I remember seeing it drawn by the Castle Class Sir Edward Elgar, which fittingly was stabled at Worcester shed and usually kept in tip-top condition, I believe.

That must've been a magnificent sight, JFLL. I remember being on a canal boat holiday in 1984 and we were on the River Severn at Worcester and just as we were about to go under the railway bridge a train from London passed over it hauled by a Class 50 diesel named Sir Edward Elgar. I would've preferred to have seen a 'Castle', though!

Gordon, don't forget 4983 Albert Hall and 5912 Queen's Hall!

[clive heath]

Digging "Flying Scotsman" as I write, one of the first pieces of music was Duke Ellington's "Daybreak Express". So many connections on this thread!, I once met Christopher Trace in the Devonshire Arms, Marloes Road.
I was born in Chippenham from which a branch line went to Calne. One day my brother and I were killing time on Calne station when the footplate men on a 0-6-0 tank offered us a ride. So off we went down to Black Dog Halt and back and blow me if 20+ years later at a model railway exhibition in the Royal Horticultural Halls near Victoria station there was a model of Black Dog Halt!!.
I once saw "Devizes Castle" 7002, emerge from the tunnel below Devizes Castle. Nowadays I live with "Caerphilly Castle" in its "O gauge" form (electric, sorry) and as the GWR tank engine was non-functioning the other day, it had to pull the goods wagons. "So undignified" as Edward would say, my granddaughter tells me.

[JFLL]

... I remember being on a canal boat holiday in 1984 and we were on the River Severn at Worcester and just as we were about to go under the railway bridge a train from London passed over it hauled by a Class 50 diesel named Sir Edward Elgar. I would've preferred to have seen a 'Castle', though! ...

Apparently there was a previous incarnation of Sir Edward Elgar on the GWR, a Bulldog class locomotive named in 1932 and scrapped in 1938. The Castle class Sir Edward Elgar was a renaming in the Elgar centenary year, 1957, of an engine previously called Lamphey Castle. And then there was a diesel, which, according to Wiki, was officially named Sir Edward Elgar at Paddington in 1984 by none other than Simon Rattle. I wonder if he’s had an engine named after him.

Can I claim my Locospotter’s Annual now?

[mercia]

probably even more off topic and I expect we already knew that Class 92 includes composers

http://www.kentrail.org.uk/Class%2092.htm

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Apparently there was a previous incarnation of Sir Edward Elgar on the GWR, a Bulldog class locomotive named in 1932 and scrapped in 1938. The Castle class Sir Edward Elgar was a renaming in the Elgar centenary year, 1957, of an engine previously called Lamphey Castle. And then there was a diesel, which, according to Wiki, was officially named Sir Edward Elgar at Paddington in 1984 by none other than Simon Rattle. I wonder if he’s had an engine named after him.

Can I claim my Locospotter’s Annual now?

The diesel Sir Edward Elgar is one I have running on my N-gauge railway in the spare room. There, I've confessed.

[Don Petter]

I once saw "Devizes Castle" 7002, emerge from the tunnel below Devizes Castle. Nowadays I live with "Caerphilly Castle" in its "O gauge" form (electric, sorry) and as the GWR tank engine was non-functioning the other day, it had to pull the goods wagons. "So undignified" as Edward would say, my granddaughter tells me.

Wow! And all I've ever done in life is once buy an Addis comb in Addiscombe - I bow to you!

I'm enjoying a second childhood with 00 gauge, as it was only a few affluent school friends who could be afforded Hornby Dublo, and I had to make do with second-hand 0 gauge clockwork*. Now I'm making up time, though more interested in the models and the intricate history of makes (Hornby-Dublo, Triang, Trix, Wrenn, Mainline, Hornby, Replica, Airfix, Dapol, Graham Farish, Bachmann, Lima, etc) than any scenics. What a saga of commercial ups and downs!

* I do still have my 0 gauge live steam Basset-Lowke 4-4-0 'Enterprise', which I can't bear to part with, though it hasn't been run since the '60s and I have no rolling stock or track.

[Anna]

I thought it a very interesting programme (with a good soundtrack) I have no idea The Flying Scotsman spent time in America nor that it had bankrupted threee owners (I think, as mentioned in the programme, like others I thought it had automatically gone to the museum at York.) I've found the full BBC documentary featured in the programme (but not viewed it) and there are lots more clips of steam locos on the page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7307.shtml

I cannot claim to have seen any famous locos but a great-grandfather was a boiler maker for GWR at Swindon .....