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  • Simon
    • Sep 2024

    GM

    I gather there is some discussion about the horrific effects of genetically modified foods on rats. I was warned about it recently by an old colleague whom I met by chance whilst travelling and who now works in the science sector.

    It's not my area, and from the recommended brief google of "tumours caused by GM foods", it appears that as usual the scientific community is split. One could be cynical and say that it's split along the lines of who is being paid by the GM producers and who is not. I have no easy way of verifying this one way or another and certainly no time to try, and it may be completely incorrect.

    As a conservative and a capitalist, I'm not against profit, of course - it's a necessary incentive for achievement - and the shareholder model can work well and be widely beneficial.

    However, as we all know, it can fail when the impetus for making money has to be balanced with the need to ensure consumer and product safety, and this is where sensible regulation and independent verification are necessary. I don't believe that these are robust enough in much of the food industry, as evidenced by the continued use of HVOs and such chemicals as aspartame and the recurring cases of caterers being prepared to buy food unfit for human consumption.

    As far as we're concerned, we have never knowingly ingested GM foods and will not buy such. Nor will we allow it to be grown on any of our property. This won't change until we are completely sure that there is no risk. At the moment, such certainty is a very long way off, and I recommend that all posters are wary of this technological "advance". Also, remember that not all food labelling is necessarily 100% accurate.

    bws Simon

    EDIT

    btw I have not posted this to start a big discussion, let alone an argument. I have no axe to grind and no direct commercial interest in any foods.

    I posted, genuinely, because I am concerned about the subject and because I wanted to encourage others to research for themselves with a view to doing what they judge is the correct thing as regards what they and their families purchase and consume.
    Last edited by Guest; 16-10-12, 16:35. Reason: Clarification
  • teamsaint
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 25177

    #2
    Interesting topic, Simes...the sort of issue that ought to be much higher up our agendas...this is REAL important stuff, much more important than the latest bit of techno wizardry from apple, or celebrity "news".

    i would like to pick up on one point that you make...that profit is a "necessary incentive for achievement".
    Whilst it clearly can be an incentive that works....there are plenty of other things that drive achievement, apart from profit.
    Competition (and profit) have, in my view been elevated far too high in our society. Collective action and cooperation can work just as well.
    The "need "for competition is a well created myth.

    I think this is relevant to the OP, since the profit/efficiency driver is always the one we are given for this type of development, and IMO, the world could be fed quite well enough without GM......Its agribusiness that needs the (excess) profits.
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

    I am not a number, I am a free man.

    Comment

    • johnb
      Full Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 2903

      #3
      I've only looked at two of the Google results (Daily Mail and the Huffington Post) but their reporting of the research is so inadequate that it is impossible to assess whether the headlines are valid or not.

      The Daily Mail says
      The tests looked at the impact of several scenarios including eating GM corn (NK603), eating the GM corn sprayed with Roundup, and consuming Roundup at low doses in water.
      But it the fails to say what the increase in tumour rates was associated with which scenario (unless I've missed that). So the research might only show that glyphosate isn't exactly good for your health. Something most people would have recognised anyway.

      Having said that, it does bring into serious question that particular type of GM corn since its whole raison d'ĂȘtre was that it could be sprayed with Roundup.

      Comment

      • umslopogaas
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1977

        #4
        Right. Unlike the usual subjects raised on these boards, I do know something about this one. I have just skimmed through the first twenty-odd Google items (by title and poster, I havent read the text). The are all clearly emanating from the anti-GM camp. Please note that the objections these people raise are doctrinal, they have nothing to do with science. Having taken a doctrinal position against GM, they select the evidence to support their case and ignore the evidence that doesnt.

        Well, here's a bit that doesnt. See the website of ISAAA for further info (sorry, I've forgotten what it stands for, will post more when I've checked, but typing ISAAA into google should produce the required website) . Most of N. and S. America, quite a lot of Africa, some of Asia have all grown GM crops for many years. You've all eaten products made from GM crops grown in those countries if you buy conventionally in our supermarkets. We are not hearing of epidemics of tumours due to GM. There are plenty of tumours, but there are plenty of possible reasons for that, and GM isnt proven likely to one of them. It is true that the citizens of the USA are terribly overweight, but that's because a combination of wealth and efficient agriculture ensures an abundant food supply. So perhaps we can indite GM for making Americans fat, but not for bringing them out in tumours.

        A major driver for the anti-GM movement is envy. Monsanto are brilliant. They made a fortune out of Roundup for 25 years while it was covered by their exclusivity agreement. After the 25 years expired they were obviously going to be undercut by India and China who could produce more cheaply than they could. So they said fine, anyone can make glyphosate, but if you want to spray it on your crops to control weeds you'll have to buy the seeds from us, because we've got exclusive rights to breed and sell seed of glyphosate-resistant crops. Second fortune coming up. I dont envy them, I just wish I could afford some shares in them.

        Comment

        • MrGongGong
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 18357

          #5
          I find that when using Sibelius the Sibelius sound sets are much better than the GM ones (I'm assuming that we are talking about music ??)

          Comment

          • Simon

            #6
            Thank you all for your comments. As I said, I posted more as a service than to set out a position.

            My own googles brought up some what seemed to be independent science, particularly from the French side, but I have no way of knowing whether they are in the "anti-GM camp" as umslop suggests. They may well be. I simply repeat my recommendation to have a root around.

            Happy also to concur, in general, with ts's comments.

            Comment

            • umslopogaas
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1977

              #7
              Well, no, Mr GG, we are in Platform 3, where we can talk about anything. Which gives me (a non-musician) a bit more space to manoeuvre than I usually have. I know very little about music, fond as I am of it, but about genetically modified crops I do know a bit.

              Comment

              • umslopogaas
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1977

                #8
                This is the web address I was looking for:

                The International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-biotech Applications (ISAAA) is a not-for-profit international organization that shares the benefits of crop biotechnology to various stakeholders, particularly resource-poor farmers in developing countries, through knowledge sharing initiatives and the transfer and delivery of proprietary biotechnology applications. ISAAA's global knowledge sharing network and public and private sector partnerships in the research and development continuum, provide a powerful combination of science-based information and appropriate technology to those who need to make informed decisions about their acceptance and use. In addition, an array of support services completes the holistic approach to agricultural development and ensures effective implementation and timely delivery of crop biotechnologies. These services include capacity building for policy makers and scientists; regulatory oversight on such issues as biosafety and food safety; and impact assessment.

                Comment

                • MrGongGong
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 18357

                  #9
                  Originally posted by umslopogaas View Post
                  Well, no, Mr GG, we are in Platform 3, where we can talk about anything. Which gives me (a non-musician) a bit more space to manoeuvre than I usually have. I know very little about music, fond as I am of it, but about genetically modified crops I do know a bit.
                  Surely we are ON platform 3 ?

                  Comment

                  • teamsaint
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 25177

                    #10
                    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                    Surely we are ON platform 3 ?

                    I think, essentially, we ARE platform 3. But off topic.
                    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                    I am not a number, I am a free man.

                    Comment

                    • Eine Alpensinfonie
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20565

                      #11
                      GM means huge profits for the Big Boys, who control the availability of seeds.
                      Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; 16-10-12, 22:26. Reason: Spelling

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        #12
                        Originally posted by umslopogaas View Post
                        This is the web address I was looking for:

                        www.ISAAA.org
                        And here's a web address which hosts a somewhat different assessment of the ISAAA et al:



                        The "Pivotal Papers" link there might be of relevance to this particular thread.

                        Comment

                        • teamsaint
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 25177

                          #13
                          Simon, you really should stop thinking of yourself as "A conservative".

                          Party politics is a game for the enslavers to play, with us as the pieces on the board.

                          Besides, issues are more fun when you can ignore the party line at will.
                          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                          I am not a number, I am a free man.

                          Comment

                          • umslopogaas
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 1977

                            #14
                            Bryn, that website of separatist loonies who cant even pronounce the English language made me laugh, but didnt do anything to make me change my mind about GM. I'll stick with ISAAA. A GM-free Wales? So much the worse for Wales, but then, they were always the worst off. You doubt? Ach, boyo, look you who they got for a Prince!

                            Comment

                            • Bryn
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 24688

                              #15
                              Originally posted by umslopogaas View Post
                              Bryn, that website of separatist loonies who cant even pronounce the English language made me laugh, but didnt do anything to make me change my mind about GM. I'll stick with ISAAA. A GM-free Wales? So much the worse for Wales, but then, they were always the worst off. You doubt? Ach, boyo, look you who they got for a Prince!
                              I bet they know that "can't" needs an apostrophe to make sense of your first sentence though.

                              [I'm not implacably opposed to GM, by the way, but Monsanto? To that company I pretty much am.]

                              Comment

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