Dunces of illiberalism

[teamsaint]

I guess league tables are part of it.
Teaching to task has its value, but its only a part of the story.
I'm afraid that i really see too much that is fundamentally wrong in the way that we educate our young people...even though teachers frequently do what is asked of them very well.

League tables.....Hmmmm..thats for another day....

[heliocentric]

A sock puppet writes:

MrGG hits the nail on the head. From the day kids go to school , to the day they leave, they are being drilled to pass exams, not to educate them , or give them skills, or inspire them, or to help them develop as people.

This is the issue here. It's becoming increasingly true of HE as well, which is where my personal experience of such things lies - course modules and "learning outcomes" defined in advance to the last detail so as to leave hardly any room for creativity, or for responsiveness to the people you're actually talking to (and at university level, don't forget!), if there were ever enough time and energy left over from doing administrative work and applying for funding, oh and doing the "research" which was ostensibly the principal reason you were employed in the first place... well, this in a nutshell is why I curtailed my own rather short and late-starting career in HE and withdrew to the outer solar system.

[teamsaint]

Interesting post, SP, sorry Helio.
I talk to people about this quite a lot. Not all of them are academic failures, I also know some "educated" people..no really I do.....and you know what, most of them feel how I do about their education, and mostly they are university educated.

IIRC, the outer solar system is where that wonderful band the B-52's pop up from time to time..but that is for another thread.

The TED talk by Ken Robinson on my link is well worth a watch if you are not familar..and very funny IMO.

[ardcarp]

I'm incredibly impressed that a longish chat about education has largely avoided all the head-banging jargon words used by teachers (a) to confuse others (b) t confuse themselves (c) to avoid thinking clearly (d) to make simple things sound complicated (e) to give themselves the illusion of sounding intelligent. I did spot one'issue' but at least it wasn't 'around' something. I just can't engage with it. Aaaaarrrrgggghhh

[scottycelt]

To be fair, Amsey, it is O Level French.

[teamsaint]

I'm incredibly impressed that a longish chat about education has largely avoided all the head-banging jargon words used by teachers (a) to confuse others (b) t confuse themselves (c) to avoid thinking clearly (d) to make simple things sound complicated (e) to give themselves the illusion of sounding intelligent. I did spot one'issue' but at least it wasn't 'around' something. I just can't engage with it. Aaaaarrrrgggghhh

I think the aspects of teaching that you have identified in A to E can fairly be recognised in every profession from Football manager to AA patrol person, and including musicians !(I am not a teacher !)

I do know a number of teachers....and this is the world they have been given, not the one they would want, I suspect.

[ardcarp]

I do know a number of teachers....and this is the world they have been given, not the one they would want, I suspect.

I assumed it was the sort of lingo they started spouting when they aspired (as most do) to promotion beyond the chalk face and hence usefulness.

[teamsaint]

I assumed it was the sort of lingo they started spouting when they aspired (as most do) to promotion beyond the chalk face and hence usefulness.

C'est la vie. Not sure that many DO aspire beyond the chalk face..but who knows ?!
Jargon is a nightmare everywhere,,I always look for one new piece of business jargon to unleash at each sales meeting. Lots of fun, and baffles the bosses, who usually have to pretend to already know it. Was easier when my son was doing business studies, now I have to do my own research. !

(actually, to be serious, I really hate being caught out using jargon which people don't know......i try hard not to do it...except at those meetings ! )