If you could wind back the clock ....

[salymap]

Slightly off topic, but.... I watched 'Eggheads' last night and was rather shocked at the lack of general knowledge shown by the five young women contestents. One was a GP, one a 'scientist' [no details], and the others had obviously had a good education.
I think they had the lowest scores ever, even with the one or two questions I could answer. And,as we have remarked elsewhere, classical music is a closed book to most of them.

[teamsaint]

If this country could choose a specialist subject, it would be in how to misuse its peoples talents.

As an aside, there are plenty of kids qualified, for instance, to gain entry to Oxbridge, but who are unable to benefit because, as the universities freely admit, they have to turn down several equally well qualified student for for every one that they have a place for.
We waste peoples talents in this country with reckless abandon.. or dare I suggest..by design.
Not many Condem ministers kids in the schools in Andover....

[teamsaint]

Slightly off topic, but.... I watched 'Eggheads' last night and was rather shocked at the lack of general knowledge shown by the five young women contestents. One was a GP, one a 'scientist' [no details], and the others had obviously had a good education.
I think they had the lowest scores ever, even with the one or two questions I could answer. And,as we have remarked elsewhere, classical music is a closed book to most of them.

Recruitment to Med school really doesn't seem to rely on identifying well rounded individuals who also have the requisite academic skills.
Edit, though no doubt some doctors would fulfill these criteria !

[Mary Chambers]

The Classical Brits.

I agree with Anna about Slebrity, especially when it's promoted to children, as it is all the time.

I agree with salymap about 'alternative therapies' (I hope I've interpreted you correctly, salymap) - so many gullible people being conned.

Lots of other things

[teamsaint]

Trouble is, lots of people being ripped off, conned or poisoned by the drugs companies.

Most doctors surgeries look like an advertising hoarding for those companies.

[John Shelton]

how to think logically (Philosophy)

That's an extremely restricted (and restrictive) description of what Philosophy teaches - I'd prefer something along the lines of to learn how to think critically (including to think critically about thinking logically).

[MrGongGong]

The criticism of Media Studies and the like is a little more subtle than you portray it. .

Is it ?
Is it based on a real knowledge of what a degree in that subject consists of ?
Or just a "gut" feeling that it's the same as working at the institute for the bleeding obvious ?

I'm only asking because I don't know ................

It's not my field but I wouldn't think that Marshall McLuhan was an intellectual lightweight ......

I would think that there is much to understand ............

Me and my rodent mates spent hours in a ruddy box so don't come all Skinner on me matey

[amateur51]

Well, she had the ability to gain entrance to a proper university (not former "Universty College" or "Technical College of further Education" which now glory in that name).

Universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Edinburgh and others of long standing did not (and do not) accept "wannabees" in any subject.
They only consider applicants will real promise; with "A" or "A+"passes at A level, in subjects where the award of a degree means something other than enhancing a League Table.

Given your manifest skill in not answering even a fairly straightforward question HS, I suggest that you missed your vocation and should have gone into politics

[Bax-of-Delights]

I'd like to roll back those 50 years to a time when university undergraduates when asked the name of the Irish playwright who wrote "Playboy of the Western World" knew the correct answer.
(The answer, as proffered on last night's University Challenge, was Paul O'Grady. I kid you not).

[Richard Tarleton]

The Classical Brits.

Mary, I missed it but my niece sent me this, embedded in this - I hope this cheers you up at least a little bit

[Hornspieler]

So I guess using the same "logic" then we should campaign for the closure of all music colleges
after all there are more than enough flautists in the "real world" () so why do we bother to train any more ?

Media Studies is always a convenient and easy target ...............

Every morning at 9.30, I count a hundred students, drawing boards under their left arms, expensive mobile phones in their right ears, heading towards the university.

...so how about Mediaeval History, Philosophy, Music, Art History, History, Theoretical Physics ???

Not in the curriculum

University is not job training ............

That is my whole point. It is replacing the job training which eighteen year old school leavers should be undertaking.

Drink as much as you like, disturb the neighbourhood at 3 in the morning. Spend all your allowances on having a good time.
What does it matter about owing all that money - you know you won't get a job at the end of it, so you won't have to pay it back.
(that is, if you haven't dropped out after a couple of years)

For many, but not all, it is a convenient way of leading a happy-go-lucky social life at someone else's expense.

Ask anyone who lives in a University city or town and they will confirm what I am saying.

HS

[teamsaint]

Every morning at 9.30, I count a hundred students, drawing boards under their left arms, expensive mobile phones in their right ears, heading towards the university.



Not in the curriculum



That is my whole point. It is replacing the job training which eighteen year old school leavers should be undertaking.

Drink as much as you like, disturb the neighbourhood at 3 in the morning. Spend all your allowances on having a good time.
What does it matter about owing all that money - you know you won't get a job at the end of it, so you won't have to pay it back.
(that is, if you haven't dropped out after a couple of years)

For many, but not all, it is a convenient way of leading a happy-go-lucky social life at someone else's expense.

Ask anyone who lives in a University city or town and they will confirm what I am saying.

HS

Who made this world for them?

This is the world they inherited.
I don't blame them.
I blame those who decided this is how it should be.

[teamsaint]

That's an extremely restricted (and restrictive) description of what Philosophy teaches - I'd prefer something along the lines of to learn how to think critically (including to think critically about thinking logically).

Well, I have read a good deal of undergraduate level philosophy, and if you can understand a quarter of it, there is a good chance that your brain is trained to a level where you can make a big contribution to society .

[amateur51]

Every morning at 9.30, I count a hundred students, drawing boards under their left arms, expensive mobile phones in their right ears, heading towards the university.



Not in the curriculum



That is my whole point. It is replacing the job training which eighteen year old school leavers should be undertaking.

Drink as much as you like, disturb the neighbourhood at 3 in the morning. Spend all your allowances on having a good time.
What does it matter about owing all that money - you know you won't get a job at the end of it, so you won't have to pay it back.
(that is, if you haven't dropped out after a couple of years)

For many, but not all, it is a convenient way of leading a happy-go-lucky social life at someone else's expense.

Ask anyone who lives in a University city or town and they will confirm what I am saying.

HS

I live in London HS (which is certainly a University city) and I think you have a very jaundiced view of young people.

A young person of my acquaintance was telling me the other day that she goes to a local University as a disabled person who 'they' are trying to get into work. She sends 500 letters of application per week as a requirement and rarely receives a reply. She knows of no-one in her group who has received an interview offer. But they're all carrying on this mad fandango because they're threatened with losing their benefits if they don't.

A Mad World, My Masters

[John Shelton]

Well, I have read a good deal of undergraduate level philosophy, and if you can understand a quarter of it, there is a good chance that your brain is trained to a level where you can make a big contribution to society .

What happens if you can understand, say, three quarters of it - you become a sociopath?