Time for a national, publicly-owned, railway?

[David-G]

And while we are talking about profit, According to the Guardian's report Virgin Rail paid out £381m dividend over the past ten years, so it was certainly very profitable for some, who probably didn't even have to get out of bed to 'earn' it. Wouldn't that have been better used to reduce the subsidy paid by government (us)?

(And yes, I do object to putting money into Branson's pocket, but not nearly as much as I object to putting it into Soutar's)

Just wondering why Virgin would put any money into the railway if they were not going to get a dividend from it?

[Flosshilde]

Just wondering why Virgin would put any money into the railway if they were not going to get a dividend from it?

Well, exactly. Virgin are running a railway to earn money which is then paid to shareholders, rather than going back into developing the service & reducing the subsidy, which is what would happen if it was nationalised.

(I doubt that without the subsidy Virgin - or any of the other companies, would make any profit, which means that the taxpayer is providing the dividends for the shareholders - something wrong there, surely?)

[David-G]

Well, exactly. Virgin are running a railway to earn money which is then paid to shareholders, rather than going back into developing the service & reducing the subsidy, which is what would happen if it was nationalised.

(I doubt that without the subsidy Virgin - or any of the other companies, would make any profit, which means that the taxpayer is providing the dividends for the shareholders - something wrong there, surely?)

Didn't Virgin invest a lot of money in the service? Do they not deserve a return on this investment? If there were no prospect of a profit, they would not have made the investment. Then the government (i.e. the taxpayer) would have had to put up the money instead. Why then would we be better off?

[Dave2002]

(And yes, I do object to putting money into Branson's pocket, but not nearly as much as I object to putting it into Soutar's)

I've been racking my brain for days trying to figure out who or what Soutar is. Web searches haven't left me any better informed in this regard, though I am now aware of some clearly less relevant people whose name was Soutar. Will someone please explain this to me? Is it a real name or a nickname, a name standing in for something else, such as Macca?

[John Shelton]

I've been racking my brain for days trying to figure out who or what Soutar is. Web searches haven't left me any better informed in this regard, though I am now aware of some clearly less relevant people whose name was Soutar. Will someone please explain this to me? Is it a real name or a nickname, a name standing in for something else, such as Macca?

Sir Brian Souter, CEO Stagecoach (Virgin's partner in the franchise).

[Dave2002]

Sir Brian Souter, CEO Stagecoach (Virgin's partner in the franchise).

Ah. What a difference an a makes!

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Why let the government anywhere near managing engineering facilities and operations? They obviously have no expertise within either government or the civil service.

In less than a month we've had reports of two of the government's management failures in the engineering sphere:
1)
An apparent inability to make a proper assessment of bids for one railway franchise. We hear that they forgot to account for inflation; it would be interesting to learn the department of transport's views on FirstGroup's projection of a 10 % compound growth in profits sustained for 15 years.
2)
The 'revelation' from Ofgem that there's a strong possibility that the lights will go out in 2015 (actually, this will be mostly in the south, so what do I care). We can put that down to successive governments, but should single out Patricia Hewitt and Peter Hain for blocking Blair's nukes, Ed Milliband for his 2009 complacency, and Huhne and Davey because they're clearly innumerate.

So why would we want to place the running of the railways in the hands of these idiots?

On the subject of railways . . . just why do we run them at all? As a means of getting people around they're enormously expensive and there's little evidence that they save fuel and emissions (as if I cared). However, if people really want them (and I can see that they are essential for London), then let the people who use them pay the full cost. I pay all my own transport costs to get to work with no public subsidy.

[jean]

I pay all my own transport costs to get to work with no public subsidy.

If in fact you drive there, you are ignoring the roads you drive on, that are built and maintained for you at taxpayers' expense.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

No, I pay for them through my vehicle licence and all the taxartion that is applied to fuel. The motorist subsidises the economy.

[Dave2002]

If in fact you drive there, you are ignoring the roads you drive on, that are built and maintained for you at taxpayers' expense.

Only up to a point. I believe that most of the revenue for roads actually comes from petrol duty and licensing, and in that respect the government gets significant additional revenue which can be used (or misused) elsewhere.

[jean]

The motorist subsidises the economy.

Are you taking into account the cost to the NHS of all that respiratory disease, not to mention the cost of piecing together the victims of road accidents?

[John Shelton]

Are you taking into account the cost to the NHS of all that respiratory disease, not to mention the cost of piecing together the victims of road accidents?

These are out of date and I haven't Googled for more recent figures or more ... authoritative sources, but they give a flavour for road accidents.

http://www.standard.co.uk/newsheadlines/road-accidents-cost-nhs-470m-7084364.html

http://www.makingthelink.net/tools/costs-child-accidents/costs-road-accidents

[heliocentric]

mostly in the south, so what do I care (...) they save fuel and emissions (as if I cared) (...) let the people who use them pay the full cost

The Big Society at its best.

[amateur51]

No, I pay for them through my vehicle licence and all the taxartion that is applied to fuel. The motorist subsidises the economy.

Pay towards them would be nearer the mark

[amateur51]

The Big Society at its best.