Time for a national, publicly-owned, railway?

[Flosshilde]

The West Coast franchise halted (or should that be de-railed?)

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/branson-welcomes-government-u-turn-on-west-coast-main-line.1349247685

red faces in the government (again)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes!

But a well-run one, like the last few years of British Rail. Or SNCF.

[DracoM]

Yes and DBB or SNCF would be my model.

[scottycelt]

The West Coast franchise halted (or should that be de-railed?)

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/branson-welcomes-government-u-turn-on-west-coast-main-line.1349247685

red faces in the government (again)

Certainly not, Flossie! Who wants a return to the railway Dark Ages with countless strikes, filthy trains, surly staff, and mouldy cheese sandwiches?

Rail Nationalisation was a total disaster. Virgin is currently doing a good job on the WCML and Sir Richard Branson has demonstrated yet again that experienced and realistic businessmen know best how to run things and not government politicians or frighteningly incompetent public servants.

Richard Branson, take a bow, Sir, you have been thoroughly vindicated and have done the nation a great service (pun quite unintentional).

[DracoM]

You obviously do not travel much n that line. The overcrowding is legendary, there is very little legroom, the coaches are cramped and there is zippo space for the serious amount of luggage that that line carries EVERY DAY- a line that links the big populations of London, Birmingham, Manchester, takes huge feeds from Manchester Airport, two of the biggest junctions on the system in Crewe and Preston, a big international tourist destination in The Lake District, not to mention Glasgow FGS! The rolling stock is appalling and the colour of seating etc is so 1980's and grubby. It's a mess. Yes, I'm OK with Virgin running it, BUT if so, he has to take another very serious look at that rolling stock. I regularly meet travellers from Europe and USA on it and they are aghast and totally bemused by the poverty of accommodation on so massive a line. And when I think what I get on DBB, SNCF, and in USA. I am deeply, ashamed and embarrassed.

[Frances_iom]

...has demonstrated yet again that experienced and realistic businessmen know best how to run things ...

remember railtrack and its policy of profits before safety - kill a significant number of passengers and ultimately even Thatcher's beloved are seen for what they are. The current scheme has only one function - to give high profits to certain companies - after all as a couple (including First direct) have shown when things are not going well you merely walk away without any penalty - the profits on some of the commuter routes out of London are obscene given that for many it is standing room only on the trains - however I will agree the WCML is now running very well (more than could be said for Virgin Cross country which was appaling) - however it has taken many years to get to this position - at one time to guarantee a connection at Liverpool airport it was necessary to allow an extra 2 hours over the recommended time (and even then the connection sometimes needed a taxi dash from Runcorn). It should have been possible to devise a better scheme than the Tory mess which I think was devised with the one purpose of asset stripping the property portfolio to Thatcher's mates

[David-G]

The main problem was the fragmentation of BR on privatisation. It was principally this which has necessitated the substantial increase in subsidy.

[scottycelt]

You obviously do not travel much n that line. The overcrowding is legendary, there is very little legroom, the coaches are cramped and there is zippo space for the serious amount of luggage that that line carries EVERY DAY- a line that links the big populations of London, Birmingham, Manchester, takes huge feeds from Manchester Airport, two of the biggest junctions on the system in Crewe and Preston, a big international tourist destination in The Lake District, not to mention Glasgow FGS! The rolling stock is appalling and the colour of seating etc is so 1980's and grubby. It's a mess. Yes, I'm OK with Virgin running it, BUT if so, he has to take another very serious look at that rolling stock. I regularly meet travellers from Europe and USA on it and they are aghast and totally bemused by the poverty of accommodation on so massive a line. And when I think what I get on DBB, SNCF, and in USA. I am deeply, ashamed and embarrassed.

My local station is on the Man Picc-Crewe line and I travel a reasonable amount of time on the WCML both to London and Glasgow. The trains on the main line are the Italian-built Pendolinos (should that be Pendolini?). I find them comfortable and reliable. They seem quite roomy to me. The Voyagers which are used from cities like Reading are admittedly cramped when full but I can't remember when I last had to stand on a train because I couldn't find a seat. Also, some of the advance booked tickets available online are remarkably cheap and the 'train managers' are quite relaxed about one choosing their own empty seat after boarding rather than the one provided.

I agree that there has been a comparative lack of investment in the main rail lines in this country going back many years, but there has been a marked improvement in performance and the appearance and facilities of our main terminals since denationalisation. The way forward is surely to encourage more private money into the system rather than the government fleece the taxpayer for more cash and then squander it on something else. I accept that the main lines on the continent (I haven't travelled on any in the US) are excellent, in Germany in particular, but then again the Germans always seem to run things better than others, especially, sadly, the British.

The latest unbelievable farce concerning the WCML surely demonstrates why we must keep British politicians and civil servants well away from organising and running such services. Virgin and First Group are entirely blameless in the matter and are acknowledged to be the victims of government and civil service ineptitude and incompetence ... so, of course, is the taxpayer.

How anyone can conclude that the very bodies that are solely responsible for the latest ludicrous shambles should now be asked to run things entirely is quite beyond comprehension, imv.

[Pabmusic]

My local station is on the Man Picc-Crewe line and I travel a reasonable amount of time on the WCML both to London and Glasgow. The trains on the main line are the Italian-built Pendolinos (should that be Pendolini?). I find them comfortable and reliable. They seem quite roomy to me. The Voyagers which are used from cities like Reading are admittedly cramped when full but I can't remember when I last had to stand on a train because I couldn't find a seat. Also, some of the advance booked tickets available online are remarkably cheap and the 'train managers' are quite relaxed about one choosing their own empty seat after boarding rather than the one provided...

Can I second this. I had to use the West Coast Main Line almost every week from Stafford to Euston for 10 years and saw many improvements when Virgin took over and got settled. The Pendolinos are good, whether in first or standard class, and the staff helpful. I had to stand once in 10 years, after one of the rail disasters (Hatfield?) when trains were badly disrupted. In some ways I miss those weekly trips, but not very much.

[teamsaint]

My local station is on the Man Picc-Crewe line and I travel a reasonable amount of time on the WCML both to London and Glasgow. The trains on the main line are the Italian-built Pendolinos (should that be Pendolini?). I find them comfortable and reliable. They seem quite roomy to me. The Voyagers which are used from cities like Reading are admittedly cramped when full but I can't remember when I last had to stand on a train because I couldn't find a seat. Also, some of the advance booked tickets available online are remarkably cheap and the 'train managers' are quite relaxed about one choosing their own empty seat after boarding rather than the one provided.

I agree that there has been a comparative lack of investment in the main rail lines in this country going back many years, but there has been a marked improvement in performance and the appearance and facilities of our main terminals since denationalisation. The way forward is surely to encourage more private money into the system rather than the government fleece the taxpayer for more cash and then squander it on something else. I accept that the main lines on the continent (I haven't travelled on any in the US) are excellent, in Germany in particular, but then again the Germans always seem to run things better than others, especially, sadly, the British.

The latest unbelievable farce concerning the WCML surely demonstrates why we must keep British politicians and civil servants well away from organising and running such services. Virgin and First Group are entirely blameless in the matter and are acknowledged to be the victims of government and civil service ineptitude and incompetence ... so, of course, is the taxpayer.

How anyone can conclude that the very bodies that are solely responsible for the latest ludicrous shambles should now be asked to run things entirely is quite beyond comprehension, imv.

So they weren't trying it on, or something worse in their bid then?
As I understand it, they tried to show, without any justification, that there would be large profits at the end of the next contract, when in fact this is a very uncertain prediction at best?

Snouts in troughs everywhere.

[Flosshilde]

So they weren't trying it on, or something worse in their bid then?
As I understand it, they tried to show, without any justification, that there would be large profits at the end of the next contract, when in fact this is a very uncertain prediction at best?

Snouts in troughs everywhere.

Agreed; but I'd also agree with Scotty about the improvements to the West Coast line - the sevice is way better than it used to be. I could be cynical & suggest that the reason lies in the impending franchise renewal? However, it is also true that Thatcher hated railways & oversaw a long-term decline in subsidy & service (although the Inter-city services were making a profit & did provide a good, fast - in the contxt of the technology available - service). Subsidies have increased dramatically, which is why some services have improved, but I object to, in effect, subsidising company profits. Any profits made shouldn't go to shareholders but into improving services, or cuting back the subsidy. Profits should only be paid out to shareholders once the income has balanced the subsidies & they have been reduced to nothing.

[amateur51]

Certainly not, Flossie! Who wants a return to the railway Dark Ages with countless strikes, filthy trains, surly staff, and mouldy cheese sandwiches?

Rail Nationalisation was a total disaster. Virgin is currently doing a good job on the WCML and Sir Richard Branson has demonstrated yet again that experienced and realistic businessmen know best how to run things and not government politicians or frighteningly incompetent public servants.

Richard Branson, take a bow, Sir, you have been thoroughly vindicated and have done the nation a great service (pun quite unintentional).

This would be the same Sir Richard Branson who twice failed to get control of the National Lottery, I assume?

Someone somewhere knows something, I'd guess

[Flay]

This would be the same Sir Richard Branson who twice failed to get control of the National Lottery, I assume?

Someone somewhere knows something, I'd guess

Well I don't like the present lot with their tacky TV shows. To me they appear to be squandering money.

[amateur51]

Well I don't like the present lot with their tacky TV shows. To me they appear to be squandering money.

The quality of the programme is surely the responsibility of the BBC

[Flay]

I dunno. I expect they commission these programmes but do not produce them themselves. Either way it is an abomination.