Is Michael Gove as dangerous as he sounds?

[Flosshilde]

Yes, I see that now, Jim. However, my other comments on privatisation, removal from community influence, control over admissions, etc still stand

"When a school converts to become an academy, it will be the admission authority and is responsible for its own admission arrangements"

"Does becoming an academy change the relationship with local schools and the community?
No, academy funding agreements state that they must ensure that the school will be at the heart of its community, collaborating and sharing facilities and expertise with other schools and the wider community." (note that there is no mention of the community having any influence over the school)

"All schools are required to carry out a consultation but it is up to them to decide whom and how to consult. There is no specified length of time for the consultation and schools have flexibility in how it is conducted" (my emphasis)

Quotes taken from the Education dept website http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...ome-an-academy

Simon, you might want to hide your eyes, but it won't make reality disappear.

[Lateralthinking1]

Funnily enough, I have just opened the local paper and the latest table is in it. This is for the percentage of pupils with five A*-C grades including English and maths.

The top Independent school - 98%.
The top C of E High School - 77%.
The BRIT school for performing arts - 66%.
The nearest standard local authority school - a comprehensive style school - 65%.
The local above mentioned academy, £20m refurbishment being undertaken, 41% pass rate before academy status - 37%.

There is little difference in the socio-economic backgrounds of the students in the catchment areas of the schools but arguably the academy has a higher professional and middle class intake than the High School and the comprehensive style school.

The best performing academy in the borough is in a much poorer and ethnically diverse area - 88%.
Two other academies in the area - 60% and 46%.

What I take from these percentages is that the endless mucking around with the state education system is of benefit to no one and, as I said before, it should be allowed just to settle down.

[MrGongGong]

The reason for this (lateral) is probably (in my experience) given that the demographic is roughly the same (ie they are students who live in houses that have books in them !)
mostly down to class size
its not rocket science
if you spend all your education in a group of 15 as opposed to 30 then you will get about twice as much (roughly ) attention and input
simple really

[Lateralthinking1]

MrGongGong - Yes, I am sure this is a factor, particularly where there is mixed ability.

I don't know what class sizes are like these days. A very, very, long time ago when I came through schooling, there was a belief that Independent schools had much smaller classes. However, in my local primary, I was 1 of 33 and when I passed the eleven plus I was 1 of 27 in an Independent school.

My experience of the teaching in that Independent school was that it fell short of beliefs and expectations and I can think of a dozen or so instances when it was downright poor.

What was clear to me is that the wealthy as a trend have greater systemic intelligence. The children quickly become confident in "the system" because their parents "are" the system. A mixture generally of systemic adherence and non-adhering gamesmanship, which in a sense "is" the Independent school, pro-Establishment but outside the main educational framework. This is what ultimately makes for influence in the wider, adult, world.

[Mahlerei]

I'm afraid you are out of date Flosshilde. The new fast track academies do not have sponsors.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/academies/becominganacademy/a0066018/conversion-process/#faq4

It appears to be uncertain what rules will apply to other schools but it seems likely that sponsorship will not be necessary.

Jim, Flossie

I have just reread the school's annual report and the section on academy status and it appears there are no sponsors involved (in this case at least).

[JimD]

Mahlerei
I am a governor (now I believe director!) of a new academy, but no fan of Mr Gove, and sceptical of this and other Tory claims about how to improve the system. However my impression is that some astute headteachers are pretty clear-eyed about this reform and see it as beneficial for their schools. As for LA support, they appear justifiably sceptical. The appeal to localism can also ring a little hollow. Our governing body seems to me a good deal more attuned to the local community than the rather distant and, worse, politicized LA. I note that a condition of the academy status is that we co-operate with and support another, less successful local school. Time will tell, but the Labour emphasis on centralism seemed to me to have run its course.

[Mahlerei]

Jim

Thanks for that - I suddenly felt in need of some reassurance! I'm sure the head in question is one of those astute ones who can see from whence this offer comes. As you say, we shall have to see how it all works in practice.

[JimD]

Let's hope the reassurance is justified! All I can say is that the two headteachers whom I know personally and professionally that have taken local schools into academy status have always been pretty astute in the past. Both led their schools to Outstanding status, and without playing examination games through overuse of GNVQs, BTECs and such like.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Overheard in a school staffroom today:

Teacher A: "L..... G.......m can be a really decent lad sometimes, but at other times, he behaves like a complete plonker."
Teacher B: "Oh, well; he's better than Michael Gove then: he never quite manages the 'decent lad' bit."

[Chris Newman]

Overheard in a school staffroom today:

Teacher A: "L..... G.......m can be a really decent lad sometimes, but at other times, he behaves like a complete plonker."
Teacher B: "Oh, well; he's better than Michael Gove then: he never quite manages the 'decent lad' bit."

Now come on, Alpen,
Gove cannot be a plonker: they're useful....

[Simon]

Good to see that the standard of debate from the rabid left is as high as ever.

[Chris Newman]

Good to see that the standard of debate from the rabid left is as high as ever.

Simon, my dear boy.

I think that my early contributions to this thread were entered in deadly earnest. I may have a rude sense of humour. I may have a flippant one too but members were relaxing a little until we hear the latest batch of dangerous and undemocratic nonsense from Michael Gove. Education is too important to be controlled by the Government which is Gove's plan. For any government (left or right) to push the democratic local governmental guidance aside and lay down the curriculum from on high is a major step toward dictatorship. We have seen enough idiotic Education Policies from the Tories and Labour ever since the days of the MacMillan and Wilson governments. I am sick of them and Gove's plans are the most dangerous yet. Change for the sake of change. The fear of being seen not making changes. Demoralising the staff. Alienating parents and staff. Juggling the figures and moving the goal posts. Controlling people's minds. These are the dangers from the left and the right and these are the attitudes people who love and believe in democracy must fight. I have strong arguments with Labour and the Conservatives...I have strong disappointment with the Lib-Dems. As far as the left/right divide is concerned I say a plague on both your houses. Communism and Fascism are the same thing as far as I am concerned: they are where the circle meets.

On the other hand as I have pointed out on the other place I have never called you anything rude but you still continue to lump me with the "rabid left" which I find offensive. I am not of the left nor of the right. I am an old fashioned Liberal and I wish you would accept that.

[Simon]

Communism and Fascism are the same thing as far as I am concerned: they are where the circle meets.

I couldn't agree more.

I am an old fashioned Liberal and I wish you would accept that.

Ok - I will. I'm not sure quite how left the old fashioned liberals were, nor how realistic some of their ideas were! - and I may have been erroneously drawing a conclusion from the support of some of the others who seem to be in agreement with you - but I apologise for any offence caused and for any unwarranted assumptions on my part. I criticise others for "knee-jerks" - often and justifiably - but this, I think, was one of my own!

Returning to the point, I tend to become a little tired of the criticism of the coalition's policies by all and sundry - especially by those of the Labour persuasion, who in my view should have slunk away somewhere, so major is the damage they have done over the past dozen years. I don't agree with all that the new government has done or is proposing, but it is still early days - and they can hardly damage us more than the last lot.

As regards education in particular, I don't share your views about the dangers of central control, nor your approval of LA control - Derek Hatton, anybody? Haringey, Hackney, Lambeth - Bookbinder in Derby? - would you want these fools looking after your child's education? But I don't think that central control will do a great deal of good, or a great deal of harm. There are fundamental philosophical and societal issues with the whole provision of education in the UK that are the root cause of most of the problems, and until these are addressed the various tinkerings of any government, or LA, will in my view do little to make things better. But they won't be addressed, because this lot - despite my view that the coalition was the best option in the circuumstances - are nonetheless hampered in this policy area by having to work with well-meaning liberals - and haven't therefore got the power to attack the false dogmas of equality, the political correctness and the "rights without responsibility" philosophy - never mind the immigration issue - that have crippled us and will continue to destroy our society until the final implosion.

Up here in our more remote rural retreats, and elsewhere away from big urban centres, we have it good, for now, despite all the problems. Schools are excellent and they work fine with few problems. And we'll probably be able to resist at the end as well. But the cities ... oh dear!

bws Simon

[eighthobstruction]

It's marvellous having Simon on my 'ignore' list....you see the name come up....no silly snowman....nothing else....textual silence....lovely....

....pardon?....what was that?....

....bliss

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As regards education in particular, I don't share your views about the dangers of central control, nor your approval of LA control - Derek Hatton, anybody? Haringey, Hackney, Lambeth - Bookbinder in Derby? - would you want these fools looking after your child's education?

Well my children were under Mr Bookbinder for several years, and although I didn't like his attitude at all, I would prefer his misguided attempts to Michael Gove's.

Any day.