Annoying R3 Trailers

[oddoneout]

Yesterday, as I had the time available, I listened to the mixtape, complete with its two advert slots.I thought the point of a mixtape was that the music ran without interruption from one piece to the other? My disgruntlement led me to query not only why the interruptions, but also why it's called Classical Mixtape, when music from that period was noticeable by its absence - a single token WAM movement. Which is linked to to my ongoing annoyance, in similar vein, to the constant repetition of "the home of classical music", to which my frequent response(together with mute button) is "I wish". I realise it's pedantic, but music from that period(even if one takes its extended timeline as on the WIKI page) is similarly noticeable by its absence from the schedules, certainly from the evening concerts.
Perhaps it's been ditched to make space for all the alternative content(chat, promo, adverts - oh and questionably classical(in the "oh bung it on R3" sense) music)
I didn't think my R3 listening might end with a witter rather than a bang...

[LMcD]

Unfortunately there are people, much beloved by programme -makers, who actually like that sort of thing. There used to be a continuity announcer on ITV who kept forgetting the name of the next programme or the leading person it it, much to our irritation . When I mentioned it to someone at work she said 'Oh, we enjoy that!'. Its a bit like those people who watch formula one racing just to see the crashes.

Why not get Marvin The Paranoid Android to read out AI-generated trails and avoid this sort of thing in future?

[kernelbogey]

...My disgruntlement led me to query not only why the interruptions, but also why it's called Classical Mixtape, when music from that period was noticeable by its absence - a single token WAM movement. ...

The term classical (music) has been defined - if that is indeed not too grandiose a statement in itself - by the commercial music industry in some kind of default mode (not pop, garage, jazz, rap....).

It's lamentable that the BBC, which is in a position to take a serious public stance on this - after all BBC Radio 3 is purportedly the very home of Classical Music - merely perpetuates this sloppy non-definition originally designed to help retailers display CDs.

[french frank]

The term classical (music) has been defined - if that is indeed not too grandiose a statement in itself - by the commercial music industry in some kind of default mode (not pop, garage, jazz, rap....).

It's lamentable that the BBC, which is in a position to take a serious public stance on this - after all BBC Radio 3 is purportedly the very home of Classical Music - merely perpetuates this sloppy non-definition originally designed to help retailers display CDs.

Does this mean that R3 has expanded the meaning - for the purpose of the mixtapes - not merely beyond the strict definition of Haydn, Mozart &c, plus baroque, Renaissance, medieval, Romantic (and beyond) but also to include anything orchestral - film music, TV themes, video games music? It would be how language evolves, but it does leave one without a way of designating "classical-in-the strict-sense". It impoverishes rather than enriches.

I was struck by a story in the Guardian yesterday about a musician husband-and-wife team who bought a 70-tonne sailing ship to sail round the world giving concerts. They would be loosely described as being in the pop/world/singer-songwriter world, but he described how he had changed while sailing round the world (twice) over four years:

"And my music tastes have changed too – I’m listening to a lot of long-form classical pieces. It sounds weird, but putting on a three-minute pop song at sea makes no sense.”

People just aren't living the right sort of lives now to appreciate classical music. I can imagine that being at sea with no other entertainment and plenty of time for quiet reflection and no interruptions would be just the right environment.

[kernelbogey]

Does this mean that R3 has expanded the meaning - for the purpose of the mixtapes - not merely beyond the strict definition of Haydn, Mozart &c, plus baroque, Renaissance, medieval, Romantic (and beyond) but also to include anything orchestral - film music, TV themes, video games music?... it does leave one without a way of designating "classical-in-the strict-sense". It impoverishes rather than enriches.

The Classical Mix podcast I listened to half of, out of curiosity, while waiting for TTN to begin, included six pieces of music, one of which was classical in the strict sense: a Mozart piano sonata. The rest (I didn't hear them all) were I think loosety described as 'classical'. Maybe it's the presence of multiple live musicians playing strings, woodwind and brass - as opposed to one person with a keyboard and a laptop - that now defines 'classical'!

[oddoneout]

Does this mean that R3 has expanded the meaning - for the purpose of the mixtapes - not merely beyond the strict definition of Haydn, Mozart &c, plus baroque, Renaissance, medieval, Romantic (and beyond) but also to include anything orchestral - film music, TV themes, video games music? It would be how language evolves, but it does leave one without a way of designating "classical-in-the strict-sense". It impoverishes rather than enriches.

I was struck by a story in the Guardian yesterday about a musician husband-and-wife team who bought a 70-tonne sailing ship to sail round the world giving concerts. They would be loosely described as being in the pop/world/singer-songwriter world, but he described how he had changed while sailing round the world (twice) over four years:

"And my music tastes have changed too – I’m listening to a lot of long-form classical pieces. It sounds weird, but putting on a three-minute pop song at sea makes no sense.”

People just aren't living the right sort of lives now to appreciate classical music. I can imagine that being at sea with no other entertainment and plenty of time for quiet reflection and no interruptions would be just the right environment.

But also being forced by circumstance to look further afield? Like reading different books if the ones you would normally choose aren't available.
It's not just modern life impinging on appreciation of classical music in my view - it's the decades old issue of prejudice and misperception. Admittedly that's not helped by one aspect of modern life, in this country at least, which is the elimination of access to a wide range of music in state schools. However, if the prevailing image of "classical" music boils down to "it isn't for me" for whatever reason - fear of the unknown, ignorance, class, boring - then people will never find a reason to concentrate on such music. It's not so much the lack of concentration as such but the lack of a reason to do so, as people are quite prepared to watch/listen for long stretches to something that has grabbed their attention. It's desperately sad as when a chink of light penetrates, the rewards, not just for the individual, but for those who see someone else gaining enjoyment from something they themselves love, are great.

[Serial_Apologist]

But also being forced by circumstance to look further afield? Like reading different books if the ones you would normally choose aren't available.
It's not just modern life impinging on appreciation of classical music in my view - it's the decades old issue of prejudice and misperception. Admittedly that's not helped by one aspect of modern life, in this country at least, which is the elimination of access to a wide range of music in state schools. However, if the prevailing image of "classical" music boils down to "it isn't for me" for whatever reason - fear of the unknown, ignorance, class, boring - then people will never find a reason to concentrate on such music. It's not so much the lack of concentration as such but the lack of a reason to do so, as people are quite prepared to watch/listen for long stretches to something that has grabbed their attention. It's desperately sad as when a chink of light penetrates, the rewards, not just for the individual, but for those who see someone else gaining enjoyment from something they themselves love, are great.

In answer to this and to french frank's final post sentance, I would say that "classical music" - if we define it in possibly generic terms of general acceptance (i.e. operas, ballet scores, symphonies, symphonic poems, concertos, chamber music, salon songs) - was originally supported by ruling classes, and it was to their position as leisured classes with time on their hands for concert going, that the music was addressed. Later the appeal was spread to the middle classes, professionals with relative time to indulge. We always need to remember that music requiring large venues for performance were places more accessible to the propertied and those on high earnings. Were such audiences to overcome their persona non grata designation on working class people the latter would have had little with which to identify in such music, composed for those affording servants enjoying "Plenty of time for quiet reflection and no interruptions". For the poor it was church, music hall, home music making catered for by song writers, military/ceremonial parades and passed down folk tradition, in other words communitarian rather than individualistic listening reinforcing class identification. For mass consumption purposes classical music had to be prescribed in mythologised form as bearing its own intrinsic virtue, namely identification with the supposed aims and values of "higher" orders of society, those flashing desirable wealth from whom the attitudinal and behavioural norms would trickle down as the benefits of capitalism were conferred on the hard working. Classical music as a social accoutrement.

It needs to be said that this is not only what the classical music tradition is all or only about; historically it is about exclusion from the riches of Enlightenment and pre-Enlightenment modes of musical expression. The trouble is that capitalism's handed down values do not lend themselves to conflating spiritual enrichment (other than of the religious sort) with selling product, especially "enlightening" product. Classical signifiers could only be usefully deployed tacked onto other consumer comestibles in the profitable range of popular entertainment, i.e. film scores, pop and rock music. In this light, in content terms "mixtapes" and the like can be seen as extensions consistent with past practices.

[LMcD]

In answer to this and to french frank's final post sentance, I would say that "classical music" - if we define it in possibly generic terms of general acceptance (i.e. operas, ballet scores, symphonies, symphonic poems, concertos, chamber music, salon songs) - was originally supported by ruling classes, and it was to their position as leisured classes with time on their hands for concert going, that the music was addressed. Later the appeal was spread to the middle classes, professionals with relative time to indulge. We always need to remember that music requiring large venues for performance were places more accessible to the propertied and those on high earnings. Were such audiences to overcome their persona non grata designation on working class people the latter would have had little with which to identify in such music, composed for those affording servants enjoying "Plenty of time for quiet reflection and no interruptions". For the poor it was church, music hall, home music making catered for by song writers, military/ceremonial parades and passed down folk tradition, in other words communitarian rather than individualistic listening reinforcing class identification. For mass consumption purposes classical music had to be prescribed in mythologised form as bearing its own intrinsic virtue, namely identification with the supposed aims and values of "higher" orders of society, those flashing desirable wealth from whom the attitudinal and behavioural norms would trickle down as the benefits of capitalism were conferred on the hard working. Classical music as a social accoutrement.

It needs to be said that this is not only what the classical music tradition is all or only about; historically it is about exclusion from the riches of Enlightenment and pre-Enlightenment modes of musical expression. The trouble is that capitalism's handed down values do not lend themselves to conflating spiritual enrichment (other than of the religious sort) with selling product, especially "enlightening" product. Classical signifiers could only be usefully deployed tacked onto other consumer comestibles in the profitable range of popular entertainment, i.e. film scores, pop and rock music. In this light, in content terms "mixtapes" and the like can be seen as extensions consistent with past practices.

As part of my continuing quest to keep things simple, I merely differentiate between music that I think is worth hearing again and music that I don't think I'd miss if I never heard it again.

[Nick Armstrong]

Classical Mixtape…. constant repetition of "the home of classical music"… music from that period (even if one takes its extended timeline as on the WIKI page) is similarly noticeable by its absence from the schedules…

One of the advantages of the (soon to be eliminated ) haven that is Martin Handley’s morning programme is that he and his producer/s favour regular pieces from that period… early Schubert, early Beethoven and (particularly) Haydn, clearly one of MH’s favourites.

Not for much longer (and you already have to navigate among the wretched R3 promo clips … )

[Serial_Apologist]

One of the advantages of the (soon to be eliminated ) haven that is Martin Handley’s morning programme is that he and his producer/s favour regular pieces from that period… early Schubert, early Beethoven and (particularly) Haydn, clearly one of MH’s favourites.

Not for much longer (and you already have to navigate among the wretched R3 promo clips … )

Such is the genius of Radio 3's planners as to have united as one the irreconcilable diversity of opinion holders to be found on this thread, Nick.

[Nick Armstrong]

Such is the genius of Radio 3's planners as to have united as one the irreconcilable diversity of opinion holders to be found on this thread, Nick.

Yes, an amazing achievement, isn’t it

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, an amazing achievement, isn’t it

[LMcD]

Such is the genius of Radio 3's planners as to have united as one the irreconcilable diversity of opinion holders to be found on this thread, Nick.

I suppose you could call it 'bringing people together', which is normally (but perhaps not in this case) thought to be a good thing.

[James Wonnacott]

Yes, TTN is a life-line, and I'm already missing dear Catriona Young.


Image from Twitter.

Me too.

[oddoneout]

It's been mentioned many times that the constant repetition of "the home of classical music" doesn't make a lot of sense. The longstanding listening audiences will disagree with both the term itself and the level to which the phrase is accurate. There is also irritation at being frequently reminded that "you are listening to R3" which generally precedes it. However, yesterday another aspect floated through my idling mind - given what a turn-off the words "classical music" are to so many people, how can being the home of it possibly be an attractant to the new listeners that are apparently the justification for the level of adverts, and an aim of management? Related to that is the difficulty that it doesn't even accurately describe the R3 content, as it excludes jazz, world, film etc . No indication of the world of music on offer(even in the station's now reduced quality of output) , some at least of which could well be of interest to current non- listeners. Perhaps there are better targeted ads on the Dumbtime content, but I don't listen so can't say, but I rather doubt it.
Sadly I've now got to the stage, for several reasons, of not being able to muster energy to protest direct anymore. The lack of response, not even an auto-reply to emails to various addresses, has had the desired effect(for management) of making me stop. Does snail mail fare better? The cost of stamps is another deterrent if it doesn't elicit a response, even just "Thank you for your letter etc".