Annoying R3 Trailers

[Pulcinella]

I too have noticed this: just from listening to Sunday Breakfast - with my favourite and soon-to-be-let-go-from-it presenter Martin Handley - these 'talkings up' of coming broadcasts seem to be becoming more frequent. Fair enough for Martin to mention Wigmore Hall recitals et al that he has himself presented. But I can't help thinking that an ukase has come from on high for producers to scour the upcoming schedule and shoehorn in pieces of music whose link can offer the opportunity of a talking-up. ('And talking of Mozart, on Radio 3 on Wednesday afternoon....' etc.)

They just increase the already too high talk to music ratio imho.
I'd say they're a turn-off but I rarely turn on these days.

[JasonPalmer]

I presume these "coming up" nudges work according to listener stats which is why they do them.

[kernelbogey]

Sunday Breakfast... and every link so far (0730) seems to be a 'talking-up' point.

Martin has never in my experience done this so frequently.... I suspect (as I've said above) an ukase....

[oddoneout]

I presume these "coming up" nudges work according to listener stats which is why they do them.

Call me cynical but I doubt they have any meaningful stats about the effect of adverts on the R3 audience, although they might have numbers for the radio output in general. Any numbers are likely to be the number of complaints received - although I'm not sure they even record those now as communications don't even get an auto - reply in my (admittedly now limited due to seeming pointlessness) experience.

[french frank]

Call me cynical but I doubt they have any meaningful stats about the effect of adverts on the R3 audience, although they might have numbers for the radio output in general. Any numbers are likely to be the number of complaints received - although I'm not sure they even record those now as communications don't even get an auto - reply in my (admittedly now limited due to seeming pointlessness) experience.

I have said before - and have no reason to believe I had dreamt the fact - the controller of R3 (then RW) told me that trails (even back in 1891 ) made no difference to audience size. Built trails were then produced by a named staff member who held a degree in music. I stated my opinion (on the BBC messageboard) that the said person should demand a "proper" job and was reprimanded by a messageboard supervisor for being "rude". Moi? Rude? Not sure who I was being rude to in suggesting that a music graduate was worth a better job than making trails.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I have said before - and have no reason to believe I had dreamt the fact - the controller of R3 (then RW) told me that trails (even back in 1891 ) made no difference to audience size. Built trails were then produced by a named staff member who held a degree in music. I stated my opinion (on the BBC messageboard) that the said person should demand a "proper" job and was reprimanded by a messageboard supervisor for being "rude". Moi? Rude? Not sure who I was being rude to in suggesting that a music graduate was worth a better job than making trails.

Fact is FF a lot of music grads would kill for that job on Radio 3 as it’s a gateway to all sorts of other jobs . Do a good job there and all sorts of doors open .
At the risk of repeating myself marketing campaigns (which include trails ) don’t just work they are absolutely essential in getting an audience for the launch of a new programme or film. That’s why at one end ‘No Time To Die ‘ had a $250 million production budget and another $100 million spent on marketing (vastly more than the entire R3 budget ).
At the other end to try and establish an audience for something new all broadcasters trail programmes. Market research I’ve seen shows that quite a large chunk of the audience likes being told about future programmes. The problem comes when heavy listeners or viewers keep hearing the same trails - then they get irritated. But they don’t switch off. So that’s why the trails keep coming . I’m Pretty sure the BBC receives very few trail complaints - they don’t feature at all in the complaint statistics probably because they receive so few.
. The problem with Radio 3 is that the audiences are so small it’s very difficult to establish whether trails make a big difference one way or another. The other general problem is that with so much iPlayer viewing people don’t catch as many trails as they used to. That’s why there’s much more of a total marketing approach to new programmes or key returning programmes now - not just trails but talk-ups , TV news prices , and most important of all social media. The recent Proms campaign is a good case in point.
I suspect that a few on the forum just don’t like the fact that contemporary culture is dominated by marketing. I don’t much like it either but nothing we can do will change that. If anything it will become more invasive , more tailored and more personal. To give one example the BBC has not yet taken up the “because you watched “ trick employed by Netflix and Amazon. All the evidence is that it’s very effective in increasing stickiness.

In a few years your BBC 3 AI chatbot possibly with the dulcet tones of Catriona Young or Petroc Trelawney will construct a playlist entirely tailored to your tastes and with tailored intros and guess what : there may well be a no trails option.

[oddoneout]

I suspect that a few on the forum just don’t like the fact that contemporary culture is dominated by marketing

I would prefer it wasn't, but actually my gripe is that with R3(and presumably with other radio?) I can't avoid/pre-empt that activity. On TV I know when the adverts are coming and can act accordingly. the R3 ones are random intrusions and the only action I can take is the mute button after the intrusion begins.

In a few years your BBC 3 AI chatbot possibly with the dulcet tones of Catriona Young or Petroc Trelawney will construct a playlist entirely tailored to your tastes

A chilling thought as I don't know what my tastes are - there is so much music out there and I've only heard a minute fraction of it! What you suggest (and it doesn't seem unrealistic or unlikely) would smack of manipulation to me - "you will listen to this because it's what we have determined you will like". There's enough of that already on R3!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I would prefer it wasn't, but actually my gripe is that with R3(and presumably with other radio?) I can't avoid/pre-empt that activity. On TV I know when the adverts are coming and can act accordingly. the R3 ones are random intrusions and the only action I can take is the mute button after the intrusion begins.


A chilling thought as I don't know what my tastes are - there is so much music out there and I've only heard a minute fraction of it! What you suggest (and it doesn't seem unrealistic or unlikely) would smack of manipulation to me - "you will listen to this because it's what we have determined you will like". There's enough of that already on R3!

If you use streaming services or search for music online or info about music the streaming company and search engine will already have an excellent idea of what music you like. We haven’t even seen the start of the impact of AI . The current “if you like that you’ll like this “ system is very crude . Within a few years it will get much more sophisticated. It is potentially sinister - particularly when it comes to your political opinions. I think linear radio and the streamers will merge with bespoke curated subscription channels. So for example French Frank can have a 70’s Radio Three of unbroken longer items perhaps with a digitally resurrected 70’s announcer (depending on how much archive they’ve kept) . Those that like Ian Skelly can have him back on Essential Classics - frankly they can have Marcus Rashford presenting it - if R3 can afford the rights to his voice.

[smittims]

I can see now how so many young people simply don't live their own lives. We really are on the way to 'Pleasantville', 'The Truman Show', etc..

Mais... que voulez vous? The society that produced the lovable eccentrics we admire (Edith Sitwell, Thomas Beecham, etc) was one of cruel inequality. Will we be healthier when we are all clones? Somewhat to my relief, I shan't be around to see.

[french frank]

So for example French Frank can have a 70’s Radio Three of unbroken longer items perhaps with a digitally resurrected 70’s announcer (depending on how much archive they’ve kept) .

That would only illustrate the lack of intelligence of AI as that is not at all what I want! And if I wanted 'unbroken longer items' I could choose my own from what I have on my computer (which is what I do now if I want to listen to music - if I play a new CD on the CD drive I copy it to the computer for future repeat listening).

I never (unless I've now forgotten ) hear an explanation as to why this kind of 'marketing' through trails is needed. The unchanging script, the appropriate tone of voice, the background music - why does it have to be done that way? I did hear an R3 person suggest that if a trail was getting to people to the extent that they were finding it really annoying, it was 'doing its job'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That would only illustrate the lack of intelligence of AI as that is not at all what I want! And if I wanted 'unbroken longer items' I could choose my own from what I have on my computer (which is what I do now if I want to listen to music - if I play a new CD on the CD drive I copy it to the computer for future repeat listening).

I never (unless I've now forgotten ) hear an explanation as to why this kind of 'marketing' through trails is needed. The unchanging script, the appropriate tone of voice, the background music - why does it have to be done that way? I did hear an R3 person suggest that if a trail was getting to people to the extent that they were finding it really annoying, it was 'doing its job'.

Just an example obvs - a more likely prospect is being able to choose your presenter. I would quite like to do that as well as banning certain composers. Where that leaves presenters I don’t know probably as scriptwriters or living on the royalties from a voice licence . Not sure about trails but annoying adverts definitely work.

[oddoneout]

That would only illustrate the lack of intelligence of AI as that is not at all what I want! And if I wanted 'unbroken longer items' I could choose my own from what I have on my computer (which is what I do now if I want to listen to music - if I play a new CD on the CD drive I copy it to the computer for future repeat listening).

I never (unless I've now forgotten ) hear an explanation as to why this kind of 'marketing' through trails is needed. The unchanging script, the appropriate tone of voice, the background music - why does it have to be done that way? I did hear an R3 person suggest that if a trail was getting to people to the extent that they were finding it really annoying, it was 'doing its job'.

Not sure that's a mission statement to be proud of...

[Nick Armstrong]

I did hear an R3 person suggest that if a trail was getting to people to the extent that they were finding it really annoying, it was 'doing its job'.

That sounds like a new definition of insanity to me

[french frank]

That sounds like a new definition of insanity to me

So, 'method in their madness'? If people are annoyed, at least they've taken in what the trail is saying ('job done'). That's better than people turning off in advance to avoid hearing a trail.

[Andrew Slater]

But is it better than somebody switching off when the programme is broadcast, because they've been so annoyed by the repetitive trails?