Annoying R3 Trailers

[LMcD]

[QUOTE=Ein Heldenleben;n1311304][QUOTE=LMcD;n1311303]

But Even the famous Andy Preview octave opening sounds ridiculously over the top.

Apologies for using the diminutive . He was and is for ever more Andrew.
I’m sure on one version I’ve seen he smudges one of the octaves and Eric says “see you can’t play it either “- that might be the lesser known black and white (ITV?) version with a different pianist which rarely surfaces,

The original version featured in a 1963 episode of the the third season of Associated Television's 'Two Of A Kind', with Ernie as the conductor.

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[vinteuil]

Snob! Elitist! - 'im not you :-) Philosophers tend to make these sage statements which in the end strike me as nothing more than broad but shallow opinion. Which satisfies them greatly and are but air. In any case, one may be a pig and a fool in one matter and a human being in all others. Whereas the human being in that matter may be a pig and a fool in everything else. Tut!

... a little unfair. Mill is making the necessary riposte to Bentham's 'calculus of pleasure', pointing out (surprise surprise) that it's a bit more complicated than that, and that 'pleasure' isn't everything -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicific_calculus

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[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=LMcD;n1311303][QUOTE=Ein Heldenleben;n1311264]

But Even the famous Andy Preview octave opening sounds ridiculously over the top.

He was introduced as Andrew Preview in the 1971 Morecambe and Wise Christmas special, and at one point Ernie Wise called him 'Privet'.

Apologies for using the diminutive . He was and is for ever more Andrew.
I’m sure on one version I’ve seen he smudges one of the octaves and Eric says “see you can’t play it either “- that might be the lesser known black and white (ITV?) version with a different pianist which rarely surfaces,

[LMcD]

[QUOTE=Ein Heldenleben;n1311264]

But Even the famous Andy Preview octave opening sounds ridiculously over the top. [QUOTE]

He was introduced as Andrew Preview in the 1971 Morecambe and Wise Christmas special, and at one point Ernie Wise called him 'Privet'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It may be overplayed but for whatever reason I don't hear it that much which, combined with my lack of academic musical knowledge, means I can just enjoy it when it does appear. I have a hunch that the things you find wanting/less than satisfactory(and I am not going to argue about them - as I say I can't) may well be what makes it popular with many folk, especially those who are not "classical music" afficionados or who encounter it for the first time. The opening chords may be OTT but they sure grab the attention and make it clear that this is about the piano, and also play into the image of a piano virtuoso performer/piece. It has tunes, and plenty of soloist action the length of the instrument.
Mention of reminds me of a concert I went to up in Scotland many years ago where the "other" Mendelssohn violin concerto was being put forward as unjustly neglected. The friend sitting next to me asked at the end what I thought of it and I remarked that it was surprising what could be done with scales and arpeggios - as that was the over-riding( and not very interesting) impression I got, despite the actual playing being beyond reproach. I don't get that reaction to the Grieg version although I accept the musical effect may be in doubt for the analytical.

And, to get back on topic for a minute. As my R3 listening is now so minimal the trailers are an even bigger source for resentment, not only for reducing programme content even further, but also because having to use the mute button with its associated risk of forgetting to un-mute now has a proportionally greater effect as well.

Apologies for the re diversion

but IT’S ON AGAIN .

At least the third movement is . Very well played by Leif Ove Andsnes with tremendous attack but that soppy second theme I mean really ….. Here come those scales , chromatic octaves , interlocking diminished 7ths , banging left hand chords and arpeggios….and that terrible tutti rehash of the soppy second plus tacky piano re re hash . I love it really .

[french frank]

""It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question."

John Stuart Mill, Utilitarianism [1863]

Snob! Elitist! - 'im not you :-) Philosophers tend to make these sage statements which in the end strike me as nothing more than broad but shallow opinion. Which satisfies them greatly and are but air. In any case, one may be a pig and a fool in one matter and a human being in all others. Whereas the human being in that matter may be a pig and a fool in everything else. Tut!

[vinteuil]

There's an odd kind of paradox: the deeper your knowledge of classical music, the deeper your appreciation. But contrariwise, it might actually spoil your enjoyment of other pieces which demand a lesser knowledge. /... /. I suspect (but could be mistaken) that I'm with the majority. And perhaps we lesser mortals are generally happier souls!

""It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question."

John Stuart Mill, Utilitarianism [1863]

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’ve diverted the thread long enough . Thanks for the excellent points above. Guess I’ve just heard it too many times. Even had a stab at playing it ..best left to the pros really.
and now time for a commercial break and this important message about an upcoming programme….

[french frank]

The opening chords may be OTT but they sure grab the attention

A bit like that 2001: A Space Odyssey ...

There's an odd kind of paradox: the deeper your knowledge of classical music, the deeper your appreciation. But contrariwise, it might actually spoil your enjoyment of other pieces which demand a lesser knowledge. It's like having a very acute ear for intonation. I could never be upset by a choir singing a quarter tone sharp. I suspect (but could be mistaken) that I'm with the majority. And perhaps we lesser mortals are generally happier souls!

[smittims]

To be fair to Debussy his famous remark referred to only a particular work by Grieg. But yes, Grieg is uneven. I was disappointed by the Symphony after it had such a build-up. And there is a really dreary trio that sometimes surfaces on TTN. But I never tire of the Lyric Pieces, the Holberg Suite, Peer Gynt and some of the songs. And as for the Concerto , it's an evergreen favourite of mine, an untarnished classic, though it needs a good performance and can be spoilt by self-indulgent soloists.

[oddoneout]

I think the Grieg PC is a bit too much of a scissors and paste job in a way that the much criticised Tschaikovsky isn’t. The slow movement is a fine piece of work I admit , But Even the famous Andy Preview octave opening sounds ridiculously over the top. The opening A minor theme : Grieg has this habit of coming up with a simple chord based theme with rather obvious harmonies underneath and then repeating it with either an octave above (wedding) or minor third (PC) .Most of the figuration from Bar 112 onwards is note spinning to my years . however the C major second subject - that really is a lovely tune - but so predictably developed . The cadenza is almost a parody isn’t it - all those chromatic octaves and arpeggios - very flashy but to what musical effect ? Brahms and Beethoven knew how to find different piano textures but Grieg is so octave and arpeggio reliant - maybe that just suited his very considerable technique ?

It may be overplayed but for whatever reason I don't hear it that much which, combined with my lack of academic musical knowledge, means I can just enjoy it when it does appear. I have a hunch that the things you find wanting/less than satisfactory(and I am not going to argue about them - as I say I can't) may well be what makes it popular with many folk, especially those who are not "classical music" afficionados or who encounter it for the first time. The opening chords may be OTT but they sure grab the attention and make it clear that this is about the piano, and also play into the image of a piano virtuoso performer/piece. It has tunes, and plenty of soloist action the length of the instrument.
Mention of

all those chromatic octaves and arpeggios

reminds me of a concert I went to up in Scotland many years ago where the "other" Mendelssohn violin concerto was being put forward as unjustly neglected. The friend sitting next to me asked at the end what I thought of it and I remarked that it was surprising what could be done with scales and arpeggios - as that was the over-riding( and not very interesting) impression I got, despite the actual playing being beyond reproach. I don't get that reaction to the Grieg version although I accept the musical effect may be in doubt for the analytical.

And, to get back on topic for a minute. As my R3 listening is now so minimal the trailers are an even bigger source for resentment, not only for reducing programme content even further, but also because having to use the mute button with its associated risk of forgetting to un-mute now has a proportionally greater effect as well.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Overplayed so that you get tired of hearing it doesn't necessarily make it thin or objectively tedious, does it? I agree with your feelings about the Wedding Day, though it was surely at Troldhaugen?

I think the Grieg PC is a bit too much of a scissors and paste job in a way that the much criticised Tschaikovsky isn’t. The slow movement is a fine piece of work I admit , But Even the famous Andy Preview octave opening sounds ridiculously over the top. The opening A minor theme : Grieg has this habit of coming up with a simple chord based theme with rather obvious harmonies underneath and then repeating it with either an octave above (wedding) or minor third (PC) .Most of the figuration from Bar 112 onwards is note spinning to my years . however the C major second subject - that really is a lovely tune - but so predictably developed . The cadenza is almost a parody isn’t it - all those chromatic octaves and arpeggios - very flashy but to what musical effect ? Brahms and Beethoven knew how to find different piano textures but Grieg is so octave and arpeggio reliant - maybe that just suited his very considerable technique ?

[french frank]

I honestly don’t mind if I never hear the Piano Concerto again though - it’s so overplayed.

Overplayed so that you get tired of hearing it doesn't necessarily make it thin or objectively tedious, does it? I agree with your feelings about the Wedding Day, though it was surely at Troldhaugen?

[Ein Heldenleben]

What a pity we don't have Grieg's opinion of Debussy's music. Composers' opinions on one another's music are often wacky. Britten on Brahms and Sibelius , for instance. One thinks 'how could such a sensitive intelligent musician be so wrong?' , but sadly, he had his own deeply personal reasons for his views.

Debussy has a point didn’t he ? Grieg was a wonderful melodist but it’s all a bit thin isn’t ? Summed up for me my the Wedding at Trondheim which must be one of the most played and tedious piano pieces on R3 . Holberg suite is a minor masterpiece though as are some of the songs. But I honestly don’t mind if I never hear the Piano Concerto again though - it’s so overplayed.

[vinteuil]

Composers' opinions on one another's music are often wacky.

Nicolas Slonimsky - Lexicon of Musical Invective : Critical Assaults on Composers Since Beethoven's Time is a nice bed-time read....

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